Originally Posted By: Tempest
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1294837
That was some fruitful and insightful reading, Tempest. Thanks.
Although, on the subject of self governance (absent of coercive authority) in the pre-industrial era (as were the examples in your provided URL's), there have been several successful examples; not the least of which is about a period of time of about a thousand years in Ireland prior to Oliver Cromwell's wholesale slaughter of the Irish people. In the post-industrial world, the Spanish revolution in 1936 is held up to be the crown jewel of self governance, and apparently worked fairly well until General Franco killed everyone.
George Orwell wrote about it.
There is also a growing movement in Latin America now where workers are assuming control of abandoned factories, which is providing at least the members of those communities with both a decent living and absolute control over their (microcosmic) societies. According to some documentaries I've seen about them, the people there are gradually growing accustomed to both the freedom and the responsibility of self governance. "You get used to voting a lot", said the subject of one documentary. It turned out, though, (at least was the implication of the documentaries) that folks became much more invested in their communities when they were running the show themselves, and they saw that as a good thing; as opposed to the exploitative social, cultural, political and economic subjugation they experienced prior.
Having said that, the United States is the last place on earth that still values the right of the individual over that of the society (note I did not say "state"; even Leninist commies have the *intention*, if misguided, of the state existing in servitude to, and accountability for, the populace), and should probably remain that way. Being a global magnet for those that wish to grow wealthy where they cannot in their current country has worked really well, if we define "really well" as abundant opportunity to acquire wealth above all else.
Tempest, you and many others take gov't initiative to "equalize" as an encroachment on free will, and you're right: It is. The pervasive attitude in the U.S. that gov't is bad and inefficient, and should be kept in check by a vigilant populace *jives with* the idealogies of self governance, in that many refer to self governance as "direct democracy", where those administering the functions of gov't are directly accountable, transparently, to the electorate. I think that notion was expressed by the founding fathers, as well. The big difference between free market libertarians like yourself and libertarian socialists is that the latter extends the demand for this accountability to the corporate world, whereas you may see that as an impediment to both the freedom of people to form and operate corporations, and to the free will inherent in any transaction (purchases, employment, etc.), even if those transactions are exploitative. Is that a fair assessment of your position?
