SAE 30

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock

Despite these conditions, my 2.5L had single digit iron wear for that wheeling season.



Take that M1 fanatics!!
LOL.gif


Zaedock, very nice. Do you have the UOA posted?
11.gif
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
As an engine sits, oil drains down into the sump. Only a thin film remains at the "top" of an engine. Upon starting, a thin (5-20) will flow up and circulate much faster than a straight 30. In the time it takes the 30wt to flow, some metal-to-metal wearing has occurred. Even if its only for a few seconds, after many starts, this wear adds up.


Can you show me some excessive wear number UOA's from running SAE30?

I don't know where you guys get your info. Seriously? You make it sound like it takes SAE30 10 minutes to flow, when in actuality, oil is being pumped as you start cranking your engine over (yep, BEFORE it starts).
 
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
Zaedock, very nice. Do you have the UOA posted?
11.gif




Here are the numbers.
Here

Left side, actual numbers. Right side universal averages.
Also, the sodium(& silicon) was found to be salt from the dusty roads/trails and cleared up the next UOA. I was the "tailgunner" many times that season and rolled on my side several times too.


EQUIPMENT MAKE: Jeep
EQUIPMENT MODEL: 2.5L 4-cyl
FUEL TYPE: Gasoline (Unleaded)
OIL USE INTERVAL: 1,471 Miles
OIL TYPE & GRADE: Chevron Delo 400 30W
MAKE-UP OIL ADDED: 0 qts

ALUMINUM 2 3
CHROMIUM 0 1
IRON 9 29
COPPER 4 4
LEAD 1 0
TIN 0 0
MOLYBDENUM 20 57
NICKEL 0 1
MANGANESE 0 0
SILVER 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0
POTASSIUM 0 1
BORON 6 6
SILICON 15 13
SODIUM 13 9
CALCIUM 2914 2785
MAGNESIUM 10 48
PHOSPHORUS 871 936
ZINC 1037 1178
BARIUM 0 0

SUS Visc @210*F 63.0 62-74
Flashpoint 375*F
Fuel 1.8% Should be Antifreeze ?
Water 0.0%
Insolubles 0.3% Should
 
Here is my 10W40 GTX UOA. It wasn't bad, but the conditions were much (MUCH!) more mild and it sheared a bunch in only 1100 miles. My Jeep is a perfect candidate for SAE30! Plus, it was only $.99/gallon!

HERE
 
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander

I'd like for someone to explain how an engine wears more during cold start-up with a straight 30 compared to a 5w20. Let's assume the ambient temperature is a good 45*F, how exactly does this wear occur?


As an engine sits, oil drains down into the sump. Only a thin film remains at the "top" of an engine. Upon starting, a thin (5-20) will flow up and circulate much faster than a straight 30. In the time it takes the 30wt to flow, some metal-to-metal wearing has occurred. Even if its only for a few seconds, after many starts, this wear adds up.


Ah yes, this is the widely accepted theory. In my experiences, most cars take less than 1 second to read oil backpressure after starting. That suggests that in less than one second, all the air is out of the oil system on the delivery side. Any difference in pump up time between a 5w20 and a SAE30 would be absolutely marginal, unless the oil system is poorly designed with an oil filter mounted thread-side down or something. There was a chart from an old study that was conducted on an old Benz OM.. it showed the differences in wear among a multi-vis, straight weight across a wide range of temperatures. IIRC, straight weight not only protected better across all temperatures, but it was far more stable/consistent than the multi-vis. I wonder where that chart is?


Agreed. You saved me some writing.
thumbsup2.gif


No engine that I've ever dealt with has taken over a second to full pressure and oil flow to the valvetrain.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino

Amsoil's advertised 30 weight could meet a multivis standard but they keep it a secret for marketing... so they sell "straight 30 weight" for the people that ask for it.



Back around 2000-2001, I called Amsoil and asked the tech what was the difference between their straight 30 weight and their 10w-30 weight oils, since both had the same specs. The tech person said they are the exact same product, just in different bottles. I was told that nobody makes a straight 30 weight oil anymore. Even the Straight 40 is really 10w-40. I called a few other oil manufacturers and they confirmed that their straight weights were really multi-weights. This info could be useful, since you can buy straight weight oil cheaper then multi weight, but it is the same oil.

30w is 10w-30
40w is 10w-40
50w is 20w-50
 
Originally Posted By: KA426
I've run Pennzoil SAE 30 in many of my automobiles in the summertime. It's good oil. Use it in the lawnmower too.


I've been told by many a mechanic to only run a 30w in my mower or any small gas engine. I beleive that lawnmowers without an oil filter only splash the oil to the cylinders. Am i wrong?

I would think you don't need a multi visc oil for a mower.
 
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
As an engine sits, oil drains down into the sump. Only a thin film remains at the "top" of an engine. Upon starting, a thin (5-20) will flow up and circulate much faster than a straight 30. In the time it takes the 30wt to flow, some metal-to-metal wearing has occurred. Even if its only for a few seconds, after many starts, this wear adds up.


Can you show me some excessive wear number UOA's from running SAE30?

I don't know where you guys get your info. Seriously? You make it sound like it takes SAE30 10 minutes to flow, when in actuality, oil is being pumped as you start cranking your engine over (yep, BEFORE it starts).



Where did you get your info? I said A FEW SECONDS. No one said or implied "10 minuets". If anyone believes 30 flows as fast as 5-20, why did petroleum engineers develop multi-vis oils in the first place? Are multi-vis oils just a worthless marketing ploy?
 
Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: eljefino

Amsoil's advertised 30 weight could meet a multivis standard but they keep it a secret for marketing... so they sell "straight 30 weight" for the people that ask for it.



Back around 2000-2001, I called Amsoil and asked the tech what was the difference between their straight 30 weight and their 10w-30 weight oils, since both had the same specs. The tech person said they are the exact same product, just in different bottles. I was told that nobody makes a straight 30 weight oil anymore. Even the Straight 40 is really 10w-40. I called a few other oil manufacturers and they confirmed that their straight weights were really multi-weights. This info could be useful, since you can buy straight weight oil cheaper then multi weight, but it is the same oil.

30w is 10w-30
40w is 10w-40
50w is 20w-50


It is interesting then that my oil pressure is better and more stable(?) with the bottle labled 30 vs. the one that says 10W30?
 
Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: eljefino

Amsoil's advertised 30 weight could meet a multivis standard but they keep it a secret for marketing... so they sell "straight 30 weight" for the people that ask for it.



Back around 2000-2001, I called Amsoil and asked the tech what was the difference between their straight 30 weight and their 10w-30 weight oils, since both had the same specs. The tech person said they are the exact same product, just in different bottles. I was told that nobody makes a straight 30 weight oil anymore. Even the Straight 40 is really 10w-40. I called a few other oil manufacturers and they confirmed that their straight weights were really multi-weights. This info could be useful, since you can buy straight weight oil cheaper then multi weight, but it is the same oil.





This is simply not true.
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Where did you get your info? I said A FEW SECONDS. No one said or implied "10 minuets". If anyone believes 30 flows as fast as 5-20, why did petroleum engineers develop multi-vis oils in the first place? Are multi-vis oils just a worthless marketing ploy?


I get my info from experience and observation, not the internet. If the ambiant temperature allows ( in Delo's case, I'd say 32*F and up) it doesn't take a few seconds for SAE30 to pump. As soon as you start cranking the engine, oil is pumping. I have seen this with SAE30, 10W40, and even 20W50 down to freezing conditions in several engines (Jeep F134, 258, 2.5L, 4.0L, small block Chevy). Oil flows from the rockers when you are cranking.

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
In the time it takes the 30wt to flow, some metal-to-metal wearing has occurred.


You're saying that it takes several seconds for SAE30 to pump in a running engine causing metal to metal contact. This is why I added my "10 minute" sarcasm. This statement is false.

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Even if its only for a few seconds, after many starts, this wear adds up


Where was my wear? Single digit numbers from a SEVERELY beaten Jeep with many starts which also rolled and even ate some dirt.


I will never understand the fear of straight weight or even thicker oils on this board.
 
I noticed you didn't answer why we have multi-vis oils in the first place...

But, OK, my friend. If you somehow really believe that 30 flows just as fast as 5-20, carry on!


(PS: all I did was originally attempt to answer someones question. Thats what "open forums" are. I didn't want or need an argument with anyone.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

I
Which of these 4 Ravenol 5w-30 oils should I choose?
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
SureshR
L
Low Kinematic high hths?
Replies
12
Views
2K
CR94
C
Oil for 73 Nova 350sbc est.3k mile a year
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
Kennedy01
Z
Should I run 5w-30 or 5w-40 or.....?
2
Replies
26
Views
1K
ChrisD46
Y
ACEA A3/B4 oils still relevant in 2024 for Turbo GDI 'High performance' Engines? - Hyundai ElantraN
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
edyvw
Back
Top