Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
You have made it abundantly clear that you only approve of OEM certified fluids. We all get that. It is fine. That is your opinion and you have a right to it. Millions upon millions of trucks and cars on the road however are running non OEM certified fluids and these mutli use ATF fluids for years without problems. How do you explain that if it is so dangerous to do as you claim? How do you explain the way people see improved transmission performance with these aftermarket fluids vs the OE( when the right one is selected obviously )?
If it is such a bad idea to run these fluids, and the fluid mfg's have "dumbed down" universal trannny fluid to the point it won't cover these various fluids as you are always claiming, especially an old Dex ATF like the OP would run in his 93 GM truck, then the stuff should not be sold at all. I am sorry but I find comments like that to be without foundation. It would make NO sense for that to actually take place. If these universalt ATF's were as bad as you claim then there would be tranny failures all over the place and that just is not happening.
I am all for quality fluids and making sure you use the right stuff but this blind devotion you have to only using OE certified fluids just makes no sense to me. Every time a Dex ATF post comes up you jump in with only use the new OE Dex VI fluid. I mean come on man. People who have trannys calling for Dex III or earlier have a HUGE array of time tested fluids to chose from besides OE certified Dex VI which their vehicles never came with.
I know it is the new Dex formula from GM and is backwards compatible but there are countless aftermarket fluids that are better that have shown to work great in Dex applications. Use Dex VI where it is called for, or if you only want to run a OE Dex fluid sure but to say it is the only smart/safe choice is ludicrous. The fluid mfg's would not list a fluid application on the bottle unless it truly covered it. Not unless they wanted a HUGE class action law suit when their fluid started causing failures.
I think you tend to give way too much credit to the quality of OE fluids and give a lot less credit to the quality of aftermarket fluids than they deserve. OE fluids are "ok" but they are seldom the top of the line and best available product in my experience. Nothing wrong with using them certainly but there is also nothing wrong with using aftermarket quality products either. Especially in 16 year old vehicles long out of warranty.
How do you explain the way people see improved transmission performance with these after-market fluids vs the OE I seriously doubt anyone sees improved transmission performance with the after-market fluids in the long-term. Now then, they might see short-term perceived 'improvements' in characteristics such as ECCC shudder but, unless that is carefully balanced with shift-clutch requirements, in the long-term that perceived improvement could be detrimental to overall transmission life ~ particularly if they're the sort of people who are towing heavy boats or trailers.
If it is such a bad idea to run these fluids, and the fluid mfg's have "dumbed down" universal trannny fluid to the point it won't cover these various fluids as you are always claiming, especially an old Dex ATF like the OP would run in his 93 GM truck, then the stuff should not be sold at all. I am sorry but I find comments like that to be without foundation. It would make NO sense for that to actually take place. If these universalt ATF's were as bad as you claim then there would be tranny failures all over the place and that just is not happening. ~ Now then, my claims are not unfounded. It is known in the industry that certain people have in fact "dumbed down" formulations. A few years ago GM upgraded their DEXRON(R) specification from G to H in order to improve oxidative stability. Since the DEXRON(R)-IIIH licenses expired, that has allowed (because there's no policing) some companies to revert to the old, cheaper, DEXRON(R)-IIIG formulations. That of course allows them to increase profit but to a detriment of performance. As far as transmission failures are concerned, how do you know there aren't any? And if one did occur, you must know that it's extremely difficult to pin it on the transmission fluid ~ that's where these people who market unlicensed fluids literally take it to the bank. Think of it this way, if you had a choice of buying 'meat' from Outer Mongolia to feed your family with vs a USDA approved prime-rib ... which would you feel most comfortable eating? I know I'd go for the approved meat every time ~ but like you said, it's all down to personal choice.
Use Dex VI where it is called for, or if you only want to run a OE Dex fluid sure but to say it is the only smart/safe choice is ludicrous. The fluid mfg's would not list a fluid application on the bottle unless it truly covered it. Not unless they wanted a HUGE class action law suit when their fluid started causing failures. ~ As I've already said, the advantage that the multi-vehicle and counterfeit fluid purveyors have is that when a transmission failure does occur, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible for a customer to prove that the fluid is responsible. This is what they rely on. If you think that many fluid manufacturers do not list claims that are unfounded, then you're living on a different planet to me ~ for instance, you CAN'T claim MB 236.6 and DEXRON(R)-VI on the same can because the 2 specs are totally different, it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to meet both, categorically cannot be done. Maybe you were unaware of that.
OE fluids are "ok" but they are seldom the top of the line and best available product in my experience. Nothing wrong with using them certainly but there is also nothing wrong with using aftermarket quality products either. On this one we'll have to agree to disagree, the OEMs spend millions of dollars on their rigorous fluid development, far more than the independents so that's where I'd put my faith. You're welcome to your opinion though. If you want some references try a couple of SAE papers, 2006-01-3241 and 2006-01-3242 ~ they both contain interesting information that may help you with your perception of how OEMs conduct their fluid and specification development.
I'm sorry this ended up being wordy but I felt I should provide a little more insight into why I feel it's so important to use the correct fluids in any given application ~ irritating to some of you, I know but at least it's backed up with millions of dollars of development and DATA to prove the performance.
Let me know if you need any more information, you can always PM me.
