Mercedes Benz M113 4.3L engine with sticky lifter

bwco · Feb 20, 2009

My car has about 72K miles and it had synthetic oil throughout it's life. Recently, the car developed this nasty ticking/knocking sound in the freezing winter morning. It appears to be a 10 minutes loud valve ticking during cold start up and it goes away when the engine is warm.

I checked the valve and tried to look into the internals and it appears to be slightly gunked up, but it's not considered to be sludge.

I do NOT wanna try autoRX, what can i do? MMO? lubro moly flush? seafoam flush? water?
I'm leaning towards MMO in the oil or a lubro moly engine flush. Or even wynn's or Pennzoil engine flush. I would like to pick something I can buy over the counter or on the shelve products.

Inputs?

rshaw125 · Feb 20, 2009

Try a different syn oil. maybe PP for example.

CATERHAM · Feb 20, 2009

What syn oil and grade have you been using and what OCI?
What start-up temperatures are we talking about?

demarpaint · Feb 20, 2009

I would shy away from a traditional engine flush. Since you'd rather not try A-Rx I would suggest MMO for the last 500-1000 miles of your OCI, try about 1/2 qt. Then change the oil out and try a fresh fill of PP, you can add the MMO again toward the end of that OCI as well. HTH

HTSS_TR · Feb 20, 2009

I have '00 E430 with 100k miles, the same engine as yours. I tried MMO about 1k mile before oil change, I used PP 5W20 instead M1 0W40 for 5-6k miles to clean up the gunk. The engine is much quieter with PP 5W20.

Quest · Feb 20, 2009

your fate is pretty much sealed the moment you refused outright in your original postings to consider AutoRx.

Good luck and by all means, run any stoddard solvent in your MB.

Doug Hillary · Feb 20, 2009

Hi,
bwco - Please tell us what engine lubricants you have been using and for how long?

panthermike · Feb 20, 2009

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I would shy away from a traditional engine flush. Since you'd rather not try A-Rx I would suggest MMO for the last 500-1000 miles of your OCI, try about 1/2 qt. Then change the oil out and try a fresh fill of PP, you can add the MMO again toward the end of that OCI as well. HTH

I agree, since you don't want to try ARX, MMO seems to be the best one left on the list. Let us know how it goes.

bwco · Feb 20, 2009

I tried lubro moly 5w40 syn
I tried M1 5w40 and 0w40
Cold as in -6degree celcius to -10
Oci is usually 10k km

I am planning to try m1 5w50 next since it was cheap here in Vancouver

Input?

SamSpade · Feb 21, 2009

I would try out a 0W-30 or 5W-30 that's MB 229.5 (or is it 229.3?) approved.

BearZDefect · Feb 21, 2009

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I have '00 E430 with 100k miles, the same engine as yours. I tried MMO about 1k mile before oil change, I used PP 5W20 instead M1 0W40 for 5-6k miles to clean up the gunk. The engine is much quieter with PP 5W20.

This looks like the suggestion coming from someone with an engine like yours, who tried something that worked in that engine.

Doug Hillary · Feb 21, 2009

Hi,
bwco - If I was in your shoes I would have the noise diagnosed by a competent MB Dealer. It may be an issue they have a TSB on and perhaps even a quick fix

Once you know exactly what it is (and what is needed to rectify it) the issue of which lubricant could be determined

It is a lifter's noise then up to ten seconds or so is not an issue as long as it stops

I am also very hesitant to use any cleaning agents until I know what I'm trying to achieve

CATERHAM · Feb 22, 2009

bwco, Doug's advice is good but I would add that you've been using 40 grade oil which is certainly not ideal for sub zero starting.
Forget you're plan on going to M1 5W-50 and try as has been previously suggested PP 5W- 30 for a few 1k km's for the balance of the winter. If that doesn't high-light the problem then a visit to a competent MB mechanic may be in order.

bwco · Feb 23, 2009

^ Thanks for the inputs guys.
I'm sorry to sound like "know-all" kinda guy. But the MB dealers around here in vancouver, BC. are indeed very non-competent in diagnosis. One of my uncle is a MB mechanic. After seeing how he works on cars, I know that he isn't that great of a mechanic eventhough he worked at MB dealer for over 10+ years. My cousin (age 24) works at a BMW dealer as a mechanic as well and his knowledge on cars are not that great either. I have to tell him what to do when he's trying to find out the problem on my E46 M3. So... back on topic.

I poured in some MMO into the crankcase 2 hours ago and drove about 100km around town. I had about 10 oz of MMO in a 7L oil sump. Before MMO application, the oil is very clear and clean (PP 5W30). After 100km, the oil appears to be slightly darker. But no improvment on the throttle response yet. I'll report back later. But regret that I have no time to open up the valve cover for pictures before.

sprintman · Feb 23, 2009

Even though I 'only' have a BMW you lost me as soon as you ruled out RX. Sorry can't help people with closed minds (as I used to be). Cheers...stephen

demarpaint · Feb 23, 2009

Originally Posted By: bwco
^ Thanks for the inputs guys.
I'm sorry to sound like "know-all" kinda guy. But the MB dealers around here in vancouver, BC. are indeed very non-competent in diagnosis. One of my uncle is a MB mechanic. After seeing how he works on cars, I know that he isn't that great of a mechanic eventhough he worked at MB dealer for over 10+ years. My cousin (age 24) works at a BMW dealer as a mechanic as well and his knowledge on cars are not that great either. I have to tell him what to do when he's trying to find out the problem on my E46 M3. So... back on topic.

I poured in some MMO into the crankcase 2 hours ago and drove about 100km around town. I had about 10 oz of MMO in a 7L oil sump. Before MMO application, the oil is very clear and clean (PP 5W30). After 100km, the oil appears to be slightly darker. But no improvment on the throttle response yet. I'll report back later. But regret that I have no time to open up the valve cover for pictures before.

Since you've taken the plunge, 10 oz of MMO in a 7 qt sump isn't much, I'd probably double that amount and run the car for at least 500-1000 miles, before the oil change.

bwco · Feb 23, 2009

^ yeah, call me closed mind, but not many people would have the patient to wait for a mail order to arrive. If AutoRX is available in Canada retail stores, I would be the first one to line up try it on my car. That's the point for not using it.
If AutoRX is interested in establishing a retail network here in Canada, please try Costco, cause their quality assurance is very high. If it isn't a good product, it won't be on Costco's shelves.

yeah, i'm still skeptical about putting MMO in engine oil. I'll gradually add more to the sump and monitor it closely.

chevrofreak · Feb 23, 2009

Originally Posted By: bwco
If AutoRX is interested in establishing a retail network here in Canada, please try Costco, cause their quality assurance is very high. If it isn't a good product, it won't be on Costco's shelves.

I had a similar thought, but for Auto RX to be sold at Costco it would require a tremendous amount of it to be made, and the price would have to be reduced to $15 or less per 12oz bottle. Maybe $40 for a 3 pack.

sprintman · Feb 24, 2009

It isn't a retail product for very good reasons. We have to wait for it to be shipped to Australia but you can't wait for it to get to Canada?

moribundman · Feb 24, 2009

Originally Posted By: sprintman
We have to wait for it to be shipped to Australia but you can't wait for it to get to Canada?

I regularly send packages to Canada. Customs keeps almost every shipment for at least 10 days. Small, padded envelopes take often two to three weeks. I can't imagine sending anything liquid to Canada, especially not with the USPS.

Mercedes Benz M113 4.3L engine with sticky lifter

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