GC does not meet Ford Spec ESE-M2C153-E. Why?

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Art_Vandelay

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In the owner's manual for my '96 Lincoln Town Car it states to use 5w-30 oil meeting the spec: ESE-M2C153-E.

Does anyone know the reason GC 0w-30 cannot meet that criteria?

What specifically is it not capable of doing?

Can it cause too much engine wear or damage?

How does it meet VW 502 00, 505 00, 503 01, MB 229.1, 229.3, 229.5 and BMW LL–01 and not the Ford spec?

It can't be for viscosity, at the time 5w-30 was recommended, and 0w-30 is an operating temperature match with superior cold weather performance. I know everyone says it is more like a 40 weight but it's not a 0w-40 or else it would be labeled such.

What can it be?
 
My gut tells me that since it is technically a "Euro oil" that it wasn't tested against American auto specs. It could easily be that it meets and exceeds those other ones, but they get into a gray area without actual testing.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
In the owner's manual for my '96 Lincoln Town Car it states to use 5w-30 oil meeting the spec: ESE-M2C153-E.


Surely you are mistaken about Ford requiring a specific oil spec other than API tit or tat. Only VW has their own oil specs!
wink.gif


But seriously, what's the ESE-M2C153-E spec entail?
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
In the owner's manual for my '96 Lincoln Town Car it states to use 5w-30 oil meeting the spec: ESE-M2C153-E.

Does anyone know the reason GC 0w-30 cannot meet that criteria?

What specifically is it not capable of doing?

Can it cause too much engine wear or damage?

How does it meet VW 502 00, 505 00, 503 01, MB 229.1, 229.3, 229.5 and BMW LL–01 and not the Ford spec?

It can't be for viscosity, at the time 5w-30 was recommended, and 0w-30 is an operating temperature match with superior cold weather performance. I know everyone says it is more like a 40 weight but it's not a 0w-40 or else it would be labeled such.

What can it be?


Does the oil meet any Ford specs?

You are talking about a 13 year old car, is it possible the spec has been superceeded and GC meets the more current spec?

I don't know either way, but just throwing out some questions to provoke additional thought.
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Does anyone know the reason GC 0w-30 cannot meet that criteria?

I agree with the above: it's more likely that GC simply wasn't tested to that standard.

If it's a shear strength test, GC would probably pass with flying colors. I'd use it with confidence (although you should always get a UOA just to be sure).


Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
I know everyone says it is more like a 40 weight but it's not a 0w-40 or else it would be labeled such.

What they mean is it's close to a 40-weight: it's about 12.2 cSt @ 100 deg C, whereas the 40-weight range starts at 12.5 cSt.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour


Does the oil meet any Ford specs?

You are talking about a 13 year old car, is it possible the spec has been superceeded and GC meets the more current spec?


Yes the specification has been superseded by: WSS-M2C153-H and as of 2008 I believe that's been superseded by: WSS-M2C930-A.

GC doesn't meet any of them.
 
My guess is that because most Fords get filled with conventional or semi-syn, Castrol sees no need to market their product to Ford owners.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
My guess is that because most Fords get filled with conventional or semi-syn, Castrol sees no need to market their product to Ford owners.


Depends on which Fords you are talking about
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Nyquist
My gut tells me that since it is technically a "Euro oil" that it wasn't tested against American auto specs. It could easily be that it meets and exceeds those other ones, but they get into a gray area without actual testing.


Originally Posted By: d00df00d

I agree with the above: it's more likely that GC simply wasn't tested to that standard.

If it's a shear strength test, GC would probably pass with flying colors.


With the whole European Formula thing it's possible they just don't certify it. However on the website it lists GM–LLA–025 and GM–LL–B–025 so that makes me wonder.
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It is a high-sheer viscosity requirement for oils and was, at least at the time of the paper below, the most demanding.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=Fu-99Mc8...num=8&ct=result

For 5w30 and 10w30 it requires: 2.9cP at 150C
For 15w40 it requires 3.5cP at 150C



Doesn't it meet that threshold though?

Check this out:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159307


I would imagine it does. But since that spec has been superceded by the specs I posted about earlier in the PCMO section, it is possible that perhaps it does not meet, or has simply not been certified for Ford's newer specs.
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
However on the website it lists GM–LLA–025 and GM–LL–B–025 so that makes me wonder.


Those GM specs are for European GM vehicles, such as Saab and Opel.
 
Originally Posted By: SubieHo
Compare the latest MSDS stats of Syntec 0W30 (GC) to Castrol Edge 0W30. They're identical. The EU has more stringent regulations about what can be marketed as "synthetic." It would follow, then, that both these oils are comprised of PAO base stocks.

From the Edge 0W30 MSDS: "Synthetic base stocks. Proprietary performance additives."

From the Edge 0W30 PDS: "Castrol EDGE 0W-30 is Castrol's latest generation technology, high performance engine oil.It is a fully synthetic, 0W-30 viscosity engine oil which meets a wide range of Mercedes, General Motors, BMW and VW specifications."

Flash Point: 234 C (ASTM D92-01)
cSt at 40 C: 72
cSt at 100 C: 12.2
Pour Point: -54 C

It is at these lower temperatures that group IV, V oils make their mark. These numbers together are unachievable with highly refined base stocks.

Heck! Mobil 1 OW20, an oil marketed for "Advanced Fuel Economy" has a pour point of -48 C.


Will Castrol Edge 0w-30 be replacing GC in the U.S.?

Perhaps this will be spec'd for Ford?

It's pretty wild that the pour point is lower than Mobil's Ow-20.
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
What can it be?


It's a technicality. I would use GC in my 13 year old Ford without losing any sleep over it. Giddy up!
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Will Castrol Edge 0w-30 be replacing GC in the U.S.?

There is no mention of Edge 0w-30 being available in the US. Castrol USA only mentions Edge 5w-30 and 10w-30. The USA-made Edge 5w-30 has different specs than the European Edge 5w-30. But the USA-made Edge 5w-30 does meet the Ford WSS M2C929-A spec.
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
In the owner's manual for my '96 Lincoln Town Car it states to use 5w-30 oil meeting the spec: ESE-M2C153-E. Does anyone know the reason GC 0w-30 cannot meet that criteria?


Bureaucratic, regulatory inefficiencies. I wouldn't sweat it.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

There is no mention of Edge 0w-30 being available in the US.


This is something about which to be happy. It means that you get the same base stocks in "German Castrol" as are used in the Edge 0W30, while paying Syntec prices. For the US consumer, I hope Castrol does not repackage GC in the new shiny gold bottles.

Both Edge 0W30 and GC meet ACEA A3/B3/B4 sequences, which (among other criteria) mandate an HTHS viscosity >3.5 cP. Combine this with the other viscosity and pour point data quoted above, and you see that the numbers speak for themselves.

Compare this to the SL formulation of Mobil 1 0W40, which has a viscosity of 14.3 cSt. at 100C, HTHS viscosity of 3.6 cP, flash point (ASTM D-92)of 236 C, and also a pour point of -54 C.

Both are the very finest offerings on this side of the Atlantic -- just an issue of which viscosity is best for your application.
 
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Originally Posted By: SubieHo


Both Edge 0W30 and GC meet ACEA A3/B3/B4 sequences, which (among other criteria) mandate an HTHS viscosity >3.5 cP. Combine this with the other viscosity and pour point data quoted above, and you see that the numbers speak for themselves.

Compare this to the SL formulation of Mobil 1 0W40, which has a viscosity of 14.3 cSt. at 100C, HTHS viscosity of 3.6 cP, flash point (ASTM D-92)of 236 C, and also a pour point of -54 C.

Both are the very finest offerings on this side of the Atlantic -- just an issue of which viscosity is best for your application.



No doubt they're two of the finest oils in the U.S.
 
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