I know that Gortex allows air molecules to pass through it and stops water molecules and is therefore breathable and waterproof. Couldn't this be the case with K&N. Just because one can see through it when held up to a light doesn't nessarily mean much. Please direct me to data to show me where I'm wrong. The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking of adding headers and a catback exhaust to my '06 4.0L Explorer and would like to increasre air flow. Thanks in advance.
Can I ask a stupd question about K&N air filters?
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Gortex depends on the low surface energy of the fluorocorbon fiber and the high surface tension of wtaer. Air filters that use oil depend on the particle hitttng the oil and sticking to it. If there is an air space that a high speed aprticle can get through, it will as it is a solid particle. Most tests show that dust does get through these filters more than dry element filters. They flow better at very high flow rates or very high engine rpms. You may not see any difference at regular speeds.
K@N filter material is not Gortex.
Thanks for the replys. I'll check out the link. Yes, I know that K&N filters don't contain Gortex. I was only using that as an example to point out that for a thin material, the 'holding it up to the light test' isn't necessarily scientific.
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Originally Posted By: edweather
the 'holding it up to the light test' isn't necessarily scientific.
Very true, but seeing a layer of dust in the intake tract on the clean side of the filter pretty much confirms it. No more K&N air filters for me.
the 'holding it up to the light test' isn't necessarily scientific.
Very true, but seeing a layer of dust in the intake tract on the clean side of the filter pretty much confirms it. No more K&N air filters for me.
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: edweather
the 'holding it up to the light test' isn't necessarily scientific.
Very true, but seeing a layer of dust in the intake tract on the clean side of the filter pretty much confirms it. No more K&N air filters for me.
Originally Posted By: edweather
the 'holding it up to the light test' isn't necessarily scientific.
Very true, but seeing a layer of dust in the intake tract on the clean side of the filter pretty much confirms it. No more K&N air filters for me.
From what I've gathered, they changed the construction of them in recent years...made them filter better.
Remember, the K&N was designed for a race environment where the engine was periodically torn down anyway...max power was desirable to longevity.
I think the diesel LT market slapped them around a little...there were several reported "dusted motors" and a lot of people (including me) quit using them because they were unacceptable.
Remember, the K&N was designed for a race environment where the engine was periodically torn down anyway...max power was desirable to longevity.
I think the diesel LT market slapped them around a little...there were several reported "dusted motors" and a lot of people (including me) quit using them because they were unacceptable.
I pitched mine and went back to a dry filter element.
As I recall, K&N started out as a 3 layer gauze, but now they are up to 4 depending on applicaion. The light test isn't accurate, because there are tiny fibers between the holes still waiting to catch dust. Overall, they are an AVERAGE filter. The biggest issue is people clean them TOO MUCH. Every 50K is the SEVERE service. Every time you clean a K&N, you wash away those fibers, and the total efficiency decreases. K&N depends on surface loading to filter efficiently. As service life increases, so does filter efficiency. That is the reverse of paper/foam filters.
Personally, in 98% of the applications out there, the filter isn't the restriction... it's the intake design itself. Adding a high flow filter does nil if the filter isn't the issue in the first place. Most people that report any gains are more placebo effect than anything. I stopped wasting my time with aftermarket filters unless my entire intake system is modified. I've seen too many dynos run without any filter at all inside the airbox to prove this point.
Personally, in 98% of the applications out there, the filter isn't the restriction... it's the intake design itself. Adding a high flow filter does nil if the filter isn't the issue in the first place. Most people that report any gains are more placebo effect than anything. I stopped wasting my time with aftermarket filters unless my entire intake system is modified. I've seen too many dynos run without any filter at all inside the airbox to prove this point.
The pressure differential is much higher with the inside/outside of an air filter [compared to a bit of rain on a garment].
Crud will blow right through a hole.
Crud will blow right through a hole.
80k strong on a K&N....nothing has blown up.
When I sold autoparts, I had a customer walk in with a mid 90's chevy pickup, with a 350. He had 327K miles on the original engine, and no rebuilds. I said he had been using a K&N for the last 280K miles. Truck ran great...body was in decent shape too.
I didn't bother to ask how often he serviced the filter. It was the original K&N, and it looked in pretty good shape, about as dirty as mine...so I am assuming he at least goes 40k between cleanings.
If anyone is interested, he ran SAE 50 valvoline conventional, and fram oil filters. Changed it every 4k. Guy told me he has used 50 weight in everything he has ever driven. Said a an old farmer "back in the day" told him straight weights were good in everthing.
I tried to get the guy to try a 20w-50....but I stopped, after realising 300K miles and a good running engine....obviously this guy knows something I don't
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It was that day that I realised my obsession with oils and constant reading of bitog were rather pointless. I am still obsessed, but just attribute it to a personality trait, and not any real benefit for my car.
When I sold autoparts, I had a customer walk in with a mid 90's chevy pickup, with a 350. He had 327K miles on the original engine, and no rebuilds. I said he had been using a K&N for the last 280K miles. Truck ran great...body was in decent shape too.
I didn't bother to ask how often he serviced the filter. It was the original K&N, and it looked in pretty good shape, about as dirty as mine...so I am assuming he at least goes 40k between cleanings.
If anyone is interested, he ran SAE 50 valvoline conventional, and fram oil filters. Changed it every 4k. Guy told me he has used 50 weight in everything he has ever driven. Said a an old farmer "back in the day" told him straight weights were good in everthing.
I tried to get the guy to try a 20w-50....but I stopped, after realising 300K miles and a good running engine....obviously this guy knows something I don't
It was that day that I realised my obsession with oils and constant reading of bitog were rather pointless. I am still obsessed, but just attribute it to a personality trait, and not any real benefit for my car.
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Originally Posted By: edweather
I know that Gortex allows air molecules to pass through it and stops water molecules and is therefore breathable and waterproof. Couldn't this be the case with K&N. Just because one can see through it when held up to a light doesn't nessarily mean much. Please direct me to data to show me where I'm wrong. The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking of adding headers and a catback exhaust to my '06 4.0L Explorer and would like to increasre air flow. Thanks in advance.
Goretex is made out of ePTFE (expanded polytetrafluoroethylene). The reason you don't see manufactures making "Goretex" air filter is because it is not very common for water to get into the air box. Therefore, it is not cost effective to manufacture waterproof air filters. On a side note, I use to work for W.L. Gore & Associates (manufacture of Goretex) medical products division. They use ePTFE to make stents.
-ttvr4
I know that Gortex allows air molecules to pass through it and stops water molecules and is therefore breathable and waterproof. Couldn't this be the case with K&N. Just because one can see through it when held up to a light doesn't nessarily mean much. Please direct me to data to show me where I'm wrong. The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking of adding headers and a catback exhaust to my '06 4.0L Explorer and would like to increasre air flow. Thanks in advance.
Goretex is made out of ePTFE (expanded polytetrafluoroethylene). The reason you don't see manufactures making "Goretex" air filter is because it is not very common for water to get into the air box. Therefore, it is not cost effective to manufacture waterproof air filters. On a side note, I use to work for W.L. Gore & Associates (manufacture of Goretex) medical products division. They use ePTFE to make stents.
-ttvr4
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