LIfter noise at start up; oil filter related?

[afoulk]

We've had about a 2week string of real cold weather here lately, between -5*F and 20*F. Every morning when I start my jeep up for work, I get a lifter rattle for almost a second, like when a vehicle sits for a long period of time and the lifters drain down. Is this what you guys experience when you have an oil filter with a faulty anti drainback valve? I know this has been a common problem on the Jeeps like mine with the 3.8V6, depending on which brand of filter is used. I thought that would give you more of a knocking noise from the bottom end. I'm using the Amsoil EAo filter that they call for (EAo57 I think), so I figured i wouldn't have any problems. A guy on a jeep jk forum said he tried their equivilant to the Motorcraft FL-400S and it did that everytime. He then switched back to the proper EAo filter (EAo57) and never had the problem again. The noise isn't quite as bad when I start up to leave work at the end of the day, and its non exsistent when I start it up while the thing is hot. The problem also seems to clear up when the weather starts to warm up a bit too. Oh, and I'm using Q.S. synthetic 5w-30, never had a problem with it till the weather started to get real cold.

 

[StevieC]

I know it can be oil filter related because my engine has a TSB from Hyundai that says some aftermarket filters can cause a lack of oil flow and cause ticking... I found only WIX and Amsoil and OEM to work properly under all conditions on my truck.

 

[bmwtechguy]

The EaO's are supposed to flow well and be really great quality. I have not been disappointed in the ones I have used so far. The QS syn may be a lot more difficult to pump/flow than normal at those temps. I'm wondering if you were using, say Mobil 1 0W-30 or Amsoil 5W/0W-30 if you would have the same noise at these cold start-ups. Those oils have PAO type synthetic basestocks and would most likely flow better at those temps vs the Group III in QS. I could be wrong as I am not comparing datasheets, nor do I know how to read them terribly well.

There is also the unlikely possibility that the ADBV is allowing oil to empty back to the sump. But wouldn't it drain back in warmer weather too and give you the same noise?

 

[JHZR2]

My BMW does this... but it is not filter related - it is oil related!

My truck did this with supertech and fram filters - but not with ac delco filters.

 

[StevieC]

I'm currently using my Amsoil EAO for 20,000KM before changing it, but I change the oil once in between that. That's 12,000 Miles and it works great. If you change it like I do then the cost is not so much when you compare it to another filter but you get the best protection possible IMO and great flow!

 

[INDYMAC]

ADBV can be affected by colder temps and start leaking (especially true of nitril ADBV). I have done some experimenting with different filters on my 2000 Tundra in order to prevent start-up rattles and noises. I've found that the PureOne filters have a very good ADBV that seems to hold its seal better than the others I have tried through an entire OCI under all temps. Wix would be my second choice, but I've had a couple not make the entire OCI.

Using the proper viscosity oil for your climate is the most important thing, but changing a filter out is an easy and less expensive thing to try before changing your oil.

 

[StevieC]

INDYMAC have you tried the Amsoil EAO? It's the only one that I have found to have the best flow under all temperatures/mileage. I had problems with others in the winter because of my fussy engine.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: afoulk
We've had about a 2week string of real cold weather here lately, between -5*F and 20*F. Every morning when I start my jeep up for work, I get a lifter rattle for almost a second, like when a vehicle sits for a long period of time and the lifters drain down. Is this what you guys experience when you have an oil filter with a faulty anti drainback valve? I know this has been a common problem on the Jeeps like mine with the 3.8V6, depending on which brand of filter is used. I thought that would give you more of a knocking noise from the bottom end. I'm using the Amsoil EAo filter that they call for (EAo57 I think), so I figured i wouldn't have any problems. A guy on a jeep jk forum said he tried their equivilant to the Motorcraft FL-400S and it did that everytime. He then switched back to the proper EAo filter (EAo57) and never had the problem again. The noise isn't quite as bad when I start up to leave work at the end of the day, and its non exsistent when I start it up while the thing is hot. The problem also seems to clear up when the weather starts to warm up a bit too. Oh, and I'm using Q.S. synthetic 5w-30, never had a problem with it till the weather started to get real cold.


If its the Jeep in your sig line doesn't it call for 5W20 oil? My 08 Liberty calls for 5W20. Even though you are using 5W30, 5w20 will flow better and get to parts faster than a 5w30 will in very cold temps. Just a thought.

JMO

 

[demarpaint]

Too late to edit: I'm currently running 0W20 and a Pure One filter and my Jeep sits sometimes a week or more and starts fine with any issues at all.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
INDYMAC have you tried the Amsoil EAO? It's the only one that I have found to have the best flow under all temperatures/mileage. I had problems with others in the winter because of my fussy engine.


I have never tried the EaO. I have never had a problem or concern with flow, but was just trying to find a filter with a reliable ADBV under all conditions. At first, I thought the rattle was related to flow and bought 2 K&N filters. But within 1000 miles the rattle started on start-up even on 70F mornings on both filters. Of the filters I've tried since focussing on the ADBV, here's what I have found:

1. PureOne (consistently good)
2. Wix (some make it the entire OCI, but some didn't)
3. K&N (as previously mentioned)
4. Toyota OEM (consistently a poor choice, probably due to nitril ADBV)

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: StevieC
INDYMAC have you tried the Amsoil EAO? It's the only one that I have found to have the best flow under all temperatures/mileage. I had problems with others in the winter because of my fussy engine.


I have never tried the EaO. I have never had a problem or concern with flow, but was just trying to find a filter with a reliable ADBV under all conditions. At first, I thought the rattle was related to flow and bought 2 K&N filters. But within 1000 miles the rattle started on start-up even on 70F mornings on both filters. Of the filters I've tried since focussing on the ADBV, here's what I have found:

1. PureOne (consistently good)
2. Wix (some make it the entire OCI, but some didn't)
3. K&N (as previously mentioned)
4. Toyota OEM (consistently a poor choice, probably due to nitril ADBV)


Try the Amsoil EAO I guarantee you won't go back to the others... You can also safely use it for 12,500 miles with any oil so that the cost is the same as other ones... IMO they are the best filter around, both for filtration and flow.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: afoulk
We've had about a 2week string of real cold weather here lately, between -5*F and 20*F. Every morning when I start my jeep up for work, I get a lifter rattle for almost a second, like when a vehicle sits for a long period of time and the lifters drain down. Is this what you guys experience when you have an oil filter with a faulty anti drainback valve? I know this has been a common problem on the Jeeps like mine with the 3.8V6, depending on which brand of filter is used. I thought that would give you more of a knocking noise from the bottom end. I'm using the Amsoil EAo filter that they call for (EAo57 I think), so I figured i wouldn't have any problems. A guy on a jeep jk forum said he tried their equivilant to the Motorcraft FL-400S and it did that everytime. He then switched back to the proper EAo filter (EAo57) and never had the problem again. The noise isn't quite as bad when I start up to leave work at the end of the day, and its non exsistent when I start it up while the thing is hot. The problem also seems to clear up when the weather starts to warm up a bit too. Oh, and I'm using Q.S. synthetic 5w-30, never had a problem with it till the weather started to get real cold.


Odd occurrence ..but one swallow does not the summer make.

 

[Mkos1980]

I had a very bad experience with Mobil 1's filter on my 04 Ranger 4.0L. It would rattle every morning that I used the filter. (Summer time) I switched back to the Motorcraft version and it went back to normal. Is this common with Mobil 1 filters? Only reason I used it was because it came free with buying so many quarts. I was using M1 5w-30

 

[Rolf]

Originally Posted By: Mkos1980
I had a very bad experience with Mobil 1's filter on my 04 Ranger 4.0L. It would rattle every morning that I used the filter. (Summer time) I switched back to the Motorcraft version and it went back to normal. Is this common with Mobil 1 filters?


Not particularly.

The Mobil 1 filters are made by Champion Labs in Illinois.

Generally they are considered to be one of the better made filters. The K&N and Delco, for two, are basically the same construction.



.

 

[afoulk]

I wasn't having any problems with the 5w-30 until recently though. Anyways, I changed the filter to a PureOne tonight, I'll see if it made a difference in the morning. I used the Pure one before and it didnt' give me any problems.

 

[ZZman]

Maybe these filter issues are bypass related. Maybe they are not opening in the cold weather properly and oil starving the engines.

 

[afoulk]

its possible thats the problem with mine, but the majority of the guys with jeeps like mine are having the problem even in summer weather.

 

[bmwtechguy]

If the bypass does not open when needed, then the media will collapse at some point and the can may even pop in a worst case scenario, like with a stuck pump relief valve. I really doubt it is an issue with the bypass not opening.

 

[afoulk]

Well, started it up this morning with the Pureone filter on, and it still made the noise. I talked to my buddy at work today, and he said his moms Grand Caravan with the same engine does it all the time too, even when hot. Atleast now I know its not an oil pressure problem at startup. That I can live with, and I don't believe the brief lifter rattle will hurt anything.

 

[INDYMAC]

Let us know a couple of days from now whether the starts are improving.