Not Impressed with John Deere Plus 50 so Far!
- Thread starter JohnBrowning
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"My workplace has used JD lubricants in several dozen tractors of all sizes for many years and I would like to show this info to my superiors. Maybe it's time for a switch. This is the second JD product you have found to be mediocre. In an earlier post, you showed that JD's HYTRAN fluid was also inferior."
I don't think it John Deere specifically, I have a major mistrust of most OEM-branded fluids.
Most are over-priced and underperform.
I would like to know for sure if this is Chevron ... and if it is the same specs as a fluid they sell under their own name.
--- Bror Jace
I don't think it John Deere specifically, I have a major mistrust of most OEM-branded fluids.
I would like to know for sure if this is Chevron ... and if it is the same specs as a fluid they sell under their own name.
--- Bror Jace
JohnBrowning started this, so maybe he can examine the drum and determine something from that.quote:
Originally posted by Bror Jace:
"My workplace has used JD lubricants in several dozen tractors of all sizes for many years and I would like to show this info to my superiors. Maybe it's time for a switch. This is the second JD product you have found to be mediocre. In an earlier post, you showed that JD's HYTRAN fluid was also inferior."
I don't think it John Deere specifically, I have a major mistrust of most OEM-branded fluids.Most are over-priced and underperform.
I would like to know for sure if this is Chevron ... and if it is the same specs as a fluid they sell under their own name.
--- Bror Jace
I get the impression that there is a Chevron 15W-40 bulk product that is "not" Delo 400. This is what the JD oil looked almost exactly like in the voa section. This could have all changed and it might be a different supplier.
I was under the impression that if the JD Torq-Gard Plus-50 is in fact not an oil made to JD specs (i.e. not a re-badged existing product, but rather an off-the-shelf base fluid with an off-the-shelf add-pack from Lubrizol or somewhere), then it is not Delo, but rather Texaco Ursa.
Also, just a point of clarification: HY-TRAN is a Case-IH brand of tractor hydraulic/transmission fluid, John Deere's brand is Hy-Gard.
[ May 22, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: bulwnkl ]
Clearly it is at least not Delo 400, or else the JD and the Delo would both have either passed or failed assuming a proper, repeatable test (I'm not familiar with the test run here).
Also, just a point of clarification: HY-TRAN is a Case-IH brand of tractor hydraulic/transmission fluid, John Deere's brand is Hy-Gard.
[ May 22, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: bulwnkl ]
bulwnkl - I knew someone would call me on the use of "HY-TRAN"!
Around here, Hy-tran has become the generic term for any brand hydraulic/transmission fluid. Just like people call all tissue "Kleenex".
Can't let your guard down at BITOG!
This thread sure has me puzzled. JD claims that you can INCREASE the OCI by 50% when using their oil in tractors, yet the info here is suggesting it is a "lesser oil". And, in good faith, JD offers a lifetime guarantee - although we all know that these warranty claims are hard to prove (Amsoil, Pennzoil, and others have similar programs). It's so hard to determine the truth!
[ May 22, 2005, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: doitmyself ]
Around here, Hy-tran has become the generic term for any brand hydraulic/transmission fluid. Just like people call all tissue "Kleenex".
Can't let your guard down at BITOG!
This thread sure has me puzzled. JD claims that you can INCREASE the OCI by 50% when using their oil in tractors, yet the info here is suggesting it is a "lesser oil". And, in good faith, JD offers a lifetime guarantee - although we all know that these warranty claims are hard to prove (Amsoil, Pennzoil, and others have similar programs). It's so hard to determine the truth!
[ May 22, 2005, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: doitmyself ]
I will try to get a look at it next time I am up north. My father in laws Tool shed is about 200'X 120' and is about 40' high. The drums are up a good 18' off the ground and the lighting is rather dimm. The latter I used to reach it allowed me to barely reach the ball valve to allow it to drain into two 1/2 gallon containers. I was able to read the large print like J.D. Plus 50 and I could see the Hazmat lable but could not read all the fine print due to light conditions. I will try to find a larger latter or have some one lift me up with a loader! THe drum was preety low sounding when I hit the side of it so let's hope he does not get more as it could vary by lot.
I thought that Citgo made J.D. Plus 50 but I do not know this as a fact.
I thought that Citgo made J.D. Plus 50 but I do not know this as a fact.
In the past Chevron made JD oil in the U.S. and Esso made the JD oil in Canada. This oil has only been rated as a CH oil, not API certified. No credible evidence suggest that this has changed.
Over the road diesel rigs operate on the average of 25-35% power, plus have speed to contribute to the air flow and cool the engine. A John Deere tractor operates on the average of 70-75% power while plowing and other tasks and only has the fan for air flow to help cool the engine, so it is much harder on the oil as crankcase temps can run very high.
Low speed, high power requirements, dirty/dusty operating environment and high heat are the downfalls when considering the use of tractor oils.
This oil would not be high on my list if I had a tractor. If anyone runs this in a tractor, a UOA would be warranted at about 50-60 hours.
Over the road diesel rigs operate on the average of 25-35% power, plus have speed to contribute to the air flow and cool the engine. A John Deere tractor operates on the average of 70-75% power while plowing and other tasks and only has the fan for air flow to help cool the engine, so it is much harder on the oil as crankcase temps can run very high.
Low speed, high power requirements, dirty/dusty operating environment and high heat are the downfalls when considering the use of tractor oils.
This oil would not be high on my list if I had a tractor. If anyone runs this in a tractor, a UOA would be warranted at about 50-60 hours.
Interestingly, the Case-IH website lists off-road equipment horsepower usage at 90%, trucks at 60%, and cars at 30%. See this page.
With the recent, steep climbs in OTR truck engine horsepower (and automotive for that matter), I tend to think more like you, Vetteman, in terms of OTR truck power usage. The off-road equipment usage, however, is pretty accurate for most of the equipment out there. The days of yore when we used to buy tons of extra power and loaf the tractors are pretty well gone; there's just not enough margin to do that these days.
With the recent, steep climbs in OTR truck engine horsepower (and automotive for that matter), I tend to think more like you, Vetteman, in terms of OTR truck power usage. The off-road equipment usage, however, is pretty accurate for most of the equipment out there. The days of yore when we used to buy tons of extra power and loaf the tractors are pretty well gone; there's just not enough margin to do that these days.
Salesrep,
Please post the independent test data that you came up with regarding these oils.
My workplace has used JD lubricants in several dozen tractors of all sizes for many years and I would like to show this info to my superiors. Maybe it's time for a switch.
This is the second JD product you have found to be mediocre. In an earlier post, you showed that JD's HYTRAN fluid was also inferior.
My Chevron distributor said that this JD product is Chevron's own "HYTRAN" fluid. Same specs., same fluid.
If Chevron is supplying John Deere with low quality products, I think we all should question the use of Chevron products overall.
Just imagine,if John Browning's V 8 is shearing this stuff down, what's happening when a farm tractor is pulling a twelve bottom plow through 400 acres of heavy soil!
[ May 22, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: doitmyself ]
Please post the independent test data that you came up with regarding these oils.
My workplace has used JD lubricants in several dozen tractors of all sizes for many years and I would like to show this info to my superiors. Maybe it's time for a switch.
This is the second JD product you have found to be mediocre. In an earlier post, you showed that JD's HYTRAN fluid was also inferior.
My Chevron distributor said that this JD product is Chevron's own "HYTRAN" fluid. Same specs., same fluid.
If Chevron is supplying John Deere with low quality products, I think we all should question the use of Chevron products overall.
Just imagine,if John Browning's V 8 is shearing this stuff down, what's happening when a farm tractor is pulling a twelve bottom plow through 400 acres of heavy soil!
[ May 22, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: doitmyself ]
I found this info at a very large John Deere construction equipment company website (for what it's worth):
Will changing brands of oil cause my engine to use oil?
When upgrading to Torq-Gard Supreme Plus-50 oils following use of oils other than Torq-Gard Supreme Plus-50, little difference in oil consumption rate should be expected. A small percentage of engines may experience a noticeable change in oil consumption rates. Increased oil consumption rates may be due to several of the following factors.
* The previously used oil product may have built-up deposits on internal components.
* When introducing a premium performance oil with different additive systems which contain additional detergents, dispersants, anti-wear and antioxidants, there are different chemical reactions occurring in the deposits already established.
* The time required for the engine to regain previously observed oil consumption rates with the new oil may vary from one to three normal drain intervals. This phenomenon is not unique to John Deere engines and oils, but is commonly reported for competitive engines when switching to competitive premium oils.
Why do some lower grade oils exhibit temporary reduction in oil consumption under certain circumstances?
Torq-Gard Supreme Plus-50 contains a high performance antioxidant which, along with the other additives in a balanced formula, results in the oil remaining in the specified viscosity grade throughout the recommended drain interval. Universal engine oils with API performance grades CD, CE, or CF-4 do not provide this oxidation resistance, resulting in more rapid thickening. Oxidation makes the oil more viscous (may result in temporary reduced oil consumption), resulting in a higher amount of deposits which increases the likelihood of excessive wear and shortened engine life.
While the information presented above addresses John Deere Torq-Gard Supreme Plus-50, engines using other premium priced specialty engine oils (supplied by OEM's and others) have exhibited the same characteristics.
Will changing brands of oil cause my engine to use oil?
When upgrading to Torq-Gard Supreme Plus-50 oils following use of oils other than Torq-Gard Supreme Plus-50, little difference in oil consumption rate should be expected. A small percentage of engines may experience a noticeable change in oil consumption rates. Increased oil consumption rates may be due to several of the following factors.
* The previously used oil product may have built-up deposits on internal components.
* When introducing a premium performance oil with different additive systems which contain additional detergents, dispersants, anti-wear and antioxidants, there are different chemical reactions occurring in the deposits already established.
* The time required for the engine to regain previously observed oil consumption rates with the new oil may vary from one to three normal drain intervals. This phenomenon is not unique to John Deere engines and oils, but is commonly reported for competitive engines when switching to competitive premium oils.
Why do some lower grade oils exhibit temporary reduction in oil consumption under certain circumstances?
Torq-Gard Supreme Plus-50 contains a high performance antioxidant which, along with the other additives in a balanced formula, results in the oil remaining in the specified viscosity grade throughout the recommended drain interval. Universal engine oils with API performance grades CD, CE, or CF-4 do not provide this oxidation resistance, resulting in more rapid thickening. Oxidation makes the oil more viscous (may result in temporary reduced oil consumption), resulting in a higher amount of deposits which increases the likelihood of excessive wear and shortened engine life.
While the information presented above addresses John Deere Torq-Gard Supreme Plus-50, engines using other premium priced specialty engine oils (supplied by OEM's and others) have exhibited the same characteristics.
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