Synthetic Toyota T-IV?

[brian12]

Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Originally Posted By: The Critic
The new Vibe takes WS, not T-IV.


That's what I thought too. And you can NOT substitute the other brands for it. At least, not yet.

I agree on the T-IV substitutes though, Amsoil and Schaeffer's sure work great in the T-IV spec cars I've worked on.
I believe Wal Marts Super Tech Dex 6 claims WS compatibility.

 

[brian12]

Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
The dipstick thing bothers me. We have an '07 Rav4 that calls for the WS ATF, yet it does have a dipstick. ?
Doesn't it say on your dipstick what to put in the trans?

 

[FL-400S]

Originally Posted By: FL-400S
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Originally Posted By: The Critic
The new Vibe takes WS, not T-IV.


That's what I thought too. And you can NOT substitute the other brands for it. At least, not yet.

I agree on the T-IV substitutes though, Amsoil and Schaeffer's sure work great in the T-IV spec cars I've worked on.


Page 11-18 of my 2009 vibe owners manual.
Automatic Transmission: Use only T-IV ATF (GM part 88900925)
Coolant: 50/50 clean drinkable water and DexCool (looks like toyota Red to me though)


Here's a conundrum. The dipstick says WS, even though the owners manual says T-IV. My tundra says T-IV on the dipstick.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: FL-400S
Here's a conundrum. The dipstick says WS, even though the owners manual says T-IV. My tundra says T-IV on the dipstick.

The 2009 Matrix takes WS.

It sounds like the GM owner's manual is incorrect. This isn't the first time that something like this has occurred.

Go by the dipstick, you should use WS.

 

[ChiTDI]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
The dipstick thing bothers me. We have an '07 Rav4 that calls for the WS ATF, yet it does have a dipstick. ?


The owner's manual says WS?

That's odd if it does. Usually the WS trans' are sealed.


Thanks for the reply. The manual clearly states WS, but I haven't checked the dipstick. I'll do that and post.
Not sealed, but calls for WS, is why it was bothering me. It's a V6 Limited, and I haven't looked underneath for drain/fill plugs either, so we'll see what we have.

 

[FL-400S]

10-4 will do. Ive only got 550 miles so far. IT will be a while before I need to change it.

 

[Eddie]

+1 for ken2 Mobil #3309 or T-IV Is the correct fluid. All others say "suitable for "? which may be good but not the best. I will stick with Mobil 3309 or T-IV

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
+1 for ken2 Mobil #3309 or T-IV Is the correct fluid. All others say "suitable for "? which may be good but not the best. I will stick with Mobil 3309 or T-IV


When Amsoil says "suitable" or "recommended" you can be assured its been tested and will work fine. Thats their business. It will certainly be better than an OEM factory fill that was ATF at the lowest bid.

Amsoil warranties their fluids on sound engines and transmissions. That is because they have tested the fluids and know they work fine.

 

[bepperb]

Are you sure their business isn't making one product that magically is "suitable" for every concieveable transmission based not on testing, but on the assumption that most transmissions will still function on a fluid out of spec, and if not proving Amsoil responsible will be nearly impossible?

If someone isn't satisfied with the performance of T-IV, I would think it most prudent to use the Mobil 1 Synthetic that is suitable for T-IV. It's still a one-size-fits-all solution, but at least it comes from the same company that makes the original and therefore in knowlegeable about the OEM's requirements.

For the record, I have no problems with Amsoil products, just users that seem to believe they have some magical garage with three copies of every vehicle ever made, with 1 million miles on each using only Amsoil products. If I recall correctly, it's shaped like Noah's ark and the Stig's younger brother Richard does all the test miles. That, or maybe (likely?) someone with a masters in finance who calculates that yes, the regular Amsoil ATF does meet T-IV based mostly on the cost of making a unique product just for that application.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Are you sure their business isn't making one product that magically is "suitable" for every concieveable transmission based not on testing, but on the assumption that most transmissions will still function on a fluid out of spec, and if not proving Amsoil responsible will be nearly impossible?

If someone isn't satisfied with the performance of T-IV, I would think it most prudent to use the Mobil 1 Synthetic that is suitable for T-IV. It's still a one-size-fits-all solution, but at least it comes from the same company that makes the original and therefore in knowlegeable about the OEM's requirements.

For the record, I have no problems with Amsoil products, just users that seem to believe they have some magical garage with three copies of every vehicle ever made, with 1 million miles on each using only Amsoil products. If I recall correctly, it's shaped like Noah's ark and the Stig's younger brother Richard does all the test miles. That, or maybe (likely?) someone with a masters in finance who calculates that yes, the regular Amsoil ATF does meet T-IV based mostly on the cost of making a unique product just for that application.


Wait, are you implying that they DON'T have a magical garage?

Now I have to go and drain all this Amsoil atf out of my truck. Dammit, and my tranny was working so well with it too.

Welcome to the forum. I see you waited over a year to make your first post, this subject must have overcome your patience threshold.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Are you sure their business isn't making one product that magically is "suitable" for every concieveable transmission based not on testing, but on the assumption that most transmissions will still function on a fluid out of spec, and if not proving Amsoil responsible will be nearly impossible?

If someone isn't satisfied with the performance of T-IV, I would think it most prudent to use the Mobil 1 Synthetic that is suitable for T-IV. It's still a one-size-fits-all solution, but at least it comes from the same company that makes the original and therefore in knowlegeable about the OEM's requirements.

For the record, I have no problems with Amsoil products, just users that seem to believe they have some magical garage with three copies of every vehicle ever made, with 1 million miles on each using only Amsoil products. If I recall correctly, it's shaped like Noah's ark and the Stig's younger brother Richard does all the test miles. That, or maybe (likely?) someone with a masters in finance who calculates that yes, the regular Amsoil ATF does meet T-IV based mostly on the cost of making a unique product just for that application.

Amsoil is just a blender, but they work with their additive supplier to tweak the formulation to meet their goals. Lubrizol makes Amsoil's additive package. Here's an article from Lubrizol about their multi-vehicle additive packages. Lubrizol is really pushing this stuff:

http://assets.2tmedia.com/pr/pdfs/17/lubrizol_driveline_news_issue_1_2008.pdf

Lubrizol strongly believes that by 2010, they can cover 30 different applications with one fluid that is built from their 9680 family of additive packages.

 

[StevieC]

I'm using their ATF fluid in my Hyundai transmission which is very picky about fluid and it needs SP-III... It smoothed out my transmission dramatically... I'm really really happy with the results. The fluid also stays red a very long time, not like the dealer semi-synth stuff...

 

[bepperb]

"I see you waited over a year to make your first post, this subject must have overcome your patience threshold. "

I really just show up from time to time for the forum about cheap oil, you know, the one at the very bottom. I finally had to join for the search function about a year ago, trying to find a suitable replacement for Honda coolant on a Sunday (when dealers aren't open in WI). Never did find a firm answer, used Peak Global and the water pump hasn't burst into flames yet.

Anyway, Critic, that was a pretty good read (though basically an ad produced by the company), and I don't doubt that it's a good product. I have a Toyota T-IV tranny, and flushed with oem once thus far, still have some 1->2 shift studder, so I'm looking for something new, as is the original poster. I'm pretty weary of any one-size-fits-all ATF, but that seems to be the direction everyone has taken. Even Mobil that makes the oem 3309 now states Mobil 1 synth is a go for T-IV. So why still make the 3309 then? If one fluid was fine for everything, why wouldn't Toyota have WS replace all T-IV applications?

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: bepperb

If someone isn't satisfied with the performance of T-IV, I would think it most prudent to use the Mobil 1 Synthetic that is suitable for T-IV. It's still a one-size-fits-all solution, but at least it comes from the same company that makes the original and therefore in knowlegeable about the OEM's requirements.


This is 3rd-4th party info I read from a volvo forum a while ago. Said that T-IV (JWS3309, also used in volvo AisinWarner ATs) has same friction/VI properties as Dex 3. It was developed with a much more robust package when aisin-warner (used in toyo, volvo, jeep, others) began using torque converters with the partial lockup algorithm. The partial lock operation was very hard on fluids and required a sturdier fluid to hold up over time.

IF that's all true, +1 for the M1 syn atf. Also makes DexVI a remote possibility...

M

 

[BerndV]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Redline D6 claims that it will work where Toyota WS is needed, however, I have not seen any results from the use of it.
I replaced the factory WS in my Sequoia with D6 when it was released by Redline and it has worked extremely well so far.