Honda 5W-30 maintenance study in 2008 Civic Si

[cderalow]

Being the owner of two relatively new vehicles, I want to make sure that they stay in tip-top shape. As such, I've decided to get the oil analyzed at every change to watch for trends in wear and other potential problems.

Below are the results of the first three changes, using the OEM Honda (Mobil) 5W-30 oil, and a Mobil1 M1-110 filter. As part of this study, I'm following Honda's built in OLM system and doing my changes soon after the vehicle displays the 15% warning light. I've yet to do a TBN, but will likely do so on the next change.

I'll be posting the results from my CR-V shortly.

Si Maintenance log:

Purchase: 2/16/2008
16 Miles

Oil change 1: 6/3/2008
4,903 Miles (4,903 miles on oil)
Maintenance Minder Code: A,1
Service done: B,1
Materials: 5qt Honda 5W-30 (08798-9014), Mobil1 M1-110
Analysis Results

Oil change 2: 9/12/2008
10,286 Miles (5,383 miles on oil)
Maintenance Minder Code: B,1
Service done: B,1
Materials: 5qt Honda 5W-30 (08798-9014), Mobil1 M1-110
Analysis Results

Oil change 3: 12/20/2008
15,027 Miles (4,741 miles on oil)
Maintenance Minder Code: A,1
Service done: B,1
Materials: 5qt Honda 5W-30 (08798-9014), Mobil1 M1-110
sent to lab for testing

 

[JHZR2]

so the OLM is putting you pretty consistently near 5000 miles per change? THat's good. Have you been logging MPGs over those periods? It would be interesting to see how fuel use corresponds with oil life.

What is the difference between A,1 and B,1? Is the B,1 oil change with filter and the A,1 without filter change? I know Honda sometimes recommends alternate filter changes.

Also, what is your thought behind using honda oil? Any desire to move to a good conventional like PYB or a syn like PP or M1?

 

[cderalow]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
so the OLM is putting you pretty consistently near 5000 miles per change? THat's good. Have you been logging MPGs over those periods? It would be interesting to see how fuel use corresponds with oil life.


I have, vehicle lifetime average as of around September (when I stopped tracking it), was around 27mpg, with a predominant amount of time spent sitting in traffic on the DC Beltway to and from work. Average commute is 30 miles each way, which accounts for the bulk of the mileage. Vehicle has been driven from MD to MA twice (once during the first oil interval, and once during the second).

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
What is the difference between A,1 and B,1? Is the B,1 oil change with filter and the A,1 without filter change? I know Honda sometimes recommends alternate filter changes.


Honda does indeed recommend alternate filter changes. After tearing apart a filter after the first interval, I decided on changing the filter at every change (plus, I had a pretty good stock of the appropriate Mobil1 filters anyway) A1 is oil change, tire rotation, B1 is oil & filter change, tire rotation

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Also, what is your thought behind using honda oil? Any desire to move to a good conventional like PYB or a syn like PP or M1?


The whole concept of my study, is to use regular oil to see how accurate the OLM system is. I use the Honda fluids because I can get them relatively cheap, and it's a quality made oil anyway (Mobil). If I wanted to be really true to the study, I'd use OEM filters, but on my Si, I have a hard time stomaching the potential hazards with the Honeywell made A02 filters that I can get from local dealers. I'm likely to swap to using those on my CR-V, as it's less performance oriented.

 

[Johnny]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the Honda filters.

 

[cderalow]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
Absolutely nothing wrong with the Honda filters.


except the inside was fuzzy and falling apart after 4900 miles. The filter media is far from being the best.

The older Toyo Roki made filter (A01) were much better, but the Honeywell ones seem to be lacking.

the S2000 oil filters (004) are fine as well, but they will not fit on my CR-V (haven't tried the Si as I can't see if there's something preventing it from making a good seal).

 

[ChiTDI]

Did you trace the high sodium back to the oil(used as an additive) or was there an antifreeze leak?

 

[GMFan]

I had no idea Honda spec'd a 5w-30 for this engine...interesting.

I'm still interested to know if Honda oil (made by Mobil) is the equivalent of Mobil Drive Clean, or Exxon Superflo.

We need someone from Exxon-Mobil on these boards to give us answers.

 

[zulu]

The high RPM DOHC VTEC engines still spec 5W-30 (in Japan/Europe they use 5W-40), but the rest of the Honda/Acura fleets call for 20W.

FWIW, I stopped using the stock Honda filters once Honeywell took over. Too many similarties to the inferior Fram products. I got a killer deal on a 12 pack of Honda HAMP filters made by Toyo Roki and used them until I sold my RSX.

Don't know what the RDX calls for... I'd asume they use a 30W too.

 

[Jim Allen]

cderalow: I have a coupla questions.

The first, did you do a VOA of the oil. Depending on what it's starting viscosity was, the Honda oil seems to have taken a precipitous viscosity drop in a relatively short time. I don't think it's a worrisome thing, just notable.

Second question: You aren't interested in comparing the starting and ending TBN of this oil?

I also gave up on the Honeywells and now use Wix.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Looks like we're in similar boats but you're putting miles on your Si a bit quicker than I am. I purchased my car ~01/02/2008 and did the first change at 4100 miles with similar results to what you saw http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...317#Post1160317
I'm now going to do the second change any day now ~6000 miles on the oil with 30% left on the MM and will send that in for UOA and TBN. Looking forward to comparing results.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Spent some more time looking at your UOA and noticed that viscosity with your first and second OC are essentially the same. Strange being that your first OC had 1.6% fuel and the second showed less than 0.5%. Anyway, at 8.3 and 8.4 you're square in the 20 weight range, not the 30 weight so either Honda's 5w30 starts out at the bottom of the 30 weight range (9.3) and sheared down one cST or it's shearing down a whole lot or a third possibility is that they are putting in 5w20 (I have the impression that you do the oil changes since you mention that you get the fluids at a reduced price, so this might not be a possibility).

I'm definitely interested in your newest sample to see if your numbers have improved or not. I know that you're interested in validating Honda's MM using Honda's oil, but if the wear numbers don't improve significantly in the next few changes I'd shop for a different oil. 8200 RPM (8600 RPM with the reflash) capable engines need all of the shear stability they can get and my opinion is that the K20Z3 is a good candidate for a decent synthetic.

 

[cderalow]

Originally Posted By: OrdnanceMarine
Spent some more time looking at your UOA and noticed that viscosity with your first and second OC are essentially the same. Strange being that your first OC had 1.6% fuel and the second showed less than 0.5%. Anyway, at 8.3 and 8.4 you're square in the 20 weight range, not the 30 weight so either Honda's 5w30 starts out at the bottom of the 30 weight range (9.3) and sheared down one cST or it's shearing down a whole lot or a third possibility is that they are putting in 5w20 (I have the impression that you do the oil changes since you mention that you get the fluids at a reduced price, so this might not be a possibility).

I'm definitely interested in your newest sample to see if your numbers have improved or not. I know that you're interested in validating Honda's MM using Honda's oil, but if the wear numbers don't improve significantly in the next few changes I'd shop for a different oil. 8200 RPM (8600 RPM with the reflash) capable engines need all of the shear stability they can get and my opinion is that the K20Z3 is a good candidate for a decent synthetic.


If USPS hadn't been dumb, and returned my container to me instead of sending it to the lab, it'd have been here by now.

Instead, I've got to mail it back out.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: cderalow
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
so the OLM is putting you pretty consistently near 5000 miles per change? THat's good. Have you been logging MPGs over those periods? It would be interesting to see how fuel use corresponds with oil life.


I have, vehicle lifetime average as of around September (when I stopped tracking it), was around 27mpg, with a predominant amount of time spent sitting in traffic on the DC Beltway to and from work. Average commute is 30 miles each way, which accounts for the bulk of the mileage. Vehicle has been driven from MD to MA twice (once during the first oil interval, and once during the second).



I guess what I was asking was from oil change to oil change, was the MPG consistent?

Your study is an interesting one and looks like it shal be well done and insightful. Looking forward to seeing more info as it comes along.

27 MPG is pretty decent for DC beltway traffic. How is 1st and 2nd gear start from dead and slow rolling starts?

 

[cderalow]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: cderalow
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
so the OLM is putting you pretty consistently near 5000 miles per change? THat's good. Have you been logging MPGs over those periods? It would be interesting to see how fuel use corresponds with oil life.


I have, vehicle lifetime average as of around September (when I stopped tracking it), was around 27mpg, with a predominant amount of time spent sitting in traffic on the DC Beltway to and from work. Average commute is 30 miles each way, which accounts for the bulk of the mileage. Vehicle has been driven from MD to MA twice (once during the first oil interval, and once during the second).



I guess what I was asking was from oil change to oil change, was the MPG consistent?

Your study is an interesting one and looks like it shal be well done and insightful. Looking forward to seeing more info as it comes along.

27 MPG is pretty decent for DC beltway traffic. How is 1st and 2nd gear start from dead and slow rolling starts?


My mileage is fairly consistent. Normal tank is in the 26-27mpg range. I've had one tank that had about 23mpg, and several tanks that have seen 32mpg+.

I typically stop very little in traffic, but 1st & 2nd gear pulls are quite quick to play catch-up. 1st gear tops out in the mid 20's and 2nd will do up to 50, even with the close ratios.

 

[dblshock]

I still run a couple Hondas I bought new, '03 2.4 90k today and a '97 2.0 150k today... I've been on a 7.5k OCI and 15k FCI with the Chevron and Shell .49 cent 5-20 and Supertec filters since '03, cooler climate, mostly city driving around 53045 (70/30) and neither uses any oil at this time..A OCI costs me about $3.00 ea. and I've had one UOA..hows that for test results?

oh, forgot to mention I ran the Honda Genuine 5-30 prior to '03 but switched when it became too expensive.

 

[ZGRider]

If I owned a new Civic, I would be doing UOAs on the automatic transmission fluid instead of the engine oil -- that is the weak link of Civics.

 

[cderalow]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
If I owned a new Civic, I would be doing UOAs on the automatic transmission fluid instead of the engine oil -- that is the weak link of Civics.



Civic Si is a 6 speed manual transmission. There were issues with 06-07, and some early 08 models with the 3rd gear, but my vehicle features the revised 3rd gear synchro & gear set.

The CR-V is a 5 speed automatic, but it uses a similar transmission to the element/older CR-V & accord.

 

[HondaMan]

There are still plenty of (A01) filters to be had. You just have to find a dealer in a region of the country that has them.

The dealers do not control which version they receive, but as I have mentioned before, 50% are Honeywell and 50% are Filtech Inc.

My dealer went from having stacks of Filtech's to stacks of Honeywells only and now back to a stack of Filtech's.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted By: cderalow

I typically stop very little in traffic, but 1st & 2nd gear pulls are quite quick to play catch-up. 1st gear tops out in the mid 20's and 2nd will do up to 50, even with the close ratios.


8200 RPM (stock engine cut speed) gets you:

37 MPH - 1st
57 MPH - 2nd
81 MPH - 3rd
107 MPH - 4th
133 MPH - 5th
185 MPH - 6th (obviously we can't reach this speed)

 

[Mr Nice]

Is the 4 door Civic Si really worth the extra money over the 4 door Civic Ex ?