I am new to your site but I have done some searching before I registered and couldn't find my answer. I have a new Corvette on order (C-6) and the owners manual calls for an oil meeting GM 4718M. I am 46 years old and have heard both sides of the debate concerning the use of a full synthetic oil in a new motor. My question is this: I will change the oil and filter at 500 miles and then again at 2000. If I do this will I be OK with using a dino instead of synthetic? Is there a dino oil that meets this standard (I couldn't find one)? If not, will my car use oil later in its life due to the use of full synthetic when new? Thanks for your help in advance.
2005 Corvette
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DThumper
Let me make a plea...you are getting one of the wonderful automotive machines manufactured in the world...you have paid big bucks for this thoroughbred...don't let the cost of synthetic keep you from doing for your engine what it needs. Use syn only even given the short change intervals. A good high quality dino would probably get you through the quick turns w/o incident, but please don't do it. Use the oil Chevrolet specifies...I couldn't be more serious.
Let me make a plea...you are getting one of the wonderful automotive machines manufactured in the world...you have paid big bucks for this thoroughbred...don't let the cost of synthetic keep you from doing for your engine what it needs. Use syn only even given the short change intervals. A good high quality dino would probably get you through the quick turns w/o incident, but please don't do it. Use the oil Chevrolet specifies...I couldn't be more serious.
Do you know that the Corvette comes with Mobil 1? You would be going against the recommened oil to use dino. I even says that on the oil filler cap or at less the other models did.
* Aston Martin
* Bentley Amage and Bentley GT
* Cadillac CTS, XLR, SRX and STS
* Chevrolet Corvette
* Dodge Viper
* Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
* Mercedes SLR
* Mitsubishi EVO
* Pontiac GTO
* All Porsche vehicles
Putting anything less than synthetic oil in a Corvette would be foolish IMO.
[ April 17, 2005, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
In fact, Mobil 1 is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:
* Aston Martin
* Bentley Amage and Bentley GT
* Cadillac CTS, XLR, SRX and STS
* Chevrolet Corvette
* Dodge Viper
* Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
* Mercedes SLR
* Mitsubishi EVO
* Pontiac GTO
* All Porsche vehicles
Putting anything less than synthetic oil in a Corvette would be foolish IMO.
[ April 17, 2005, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
You paid $$$ on the vette...Go with synthetic. I wouldn't even think any other way!
D Thumper, Mike said it all, perhaps you wern't aware one of the neatest cars in the country come with Mobil 1. GM must feel the Vette engine is such a well machined unit it can run synthetic from the git go. Welcome to a wealth of information on this site and enjoy a great car.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Change the factory-fill Mobil-1 at 4K. The first time around with Mobil should be a shorter OCI. Afterwards, if you are a typical street driver with the Vette & do not "pedal to the metal" every week, change again at 12K & get an analysis done on the used oil to check for wear levels & contamination.
I am a dino guy, but in this instance I say stick with Mobil1 in the viscosity Chevy recommends.
Mobil One 5w30 and secondarily 10w30 meet the GM 4178M specification. Others do as well but for some reason almost all of them cost more than Mobil One 5w30. On Corvette boards, polls indicate that the majority of Corvette owners (68%) stick with either 5w30 or 10w30. Other popular oils are Redline, Amsoil, some like GC.
I truly believe that changing the oil at 500 miles or even 2000 miles is a COMPLETE WASTE of time, effort, resources and money. I even changed my oil at 1600 miles and both the oil and filter looked like they were out of the bottle and oil filter box. If you are at all anal about it, 5000 miles is plenty early enough. DO NOT use dino or non synthetic oil!!!
I have had a (68,000 mile) 2001 Corvette Z06 since new. I have done 6 oil changes (counting the oem fill as 1) in the 68,000 miles. Next due is at 75,000 miles.
In regards to the Mobil One EP, for some reason the EP does not meet the 4178M specification!? While I think you will not have a problem with the EP, you really don't want to give them a reason to deny engine warranty in the very remote chance you should ever need to fulfill onit.
[ April 18, 2005, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
I truly believe that changing the oil at 500 miles or even 2000 miles is a COMPLETE WASTE of time, effort, resources and money. I even changed my oil at 1600 miles and both the oil and filter looked like they were out of the bottle and oil filter box. If you are at all anal about it, 5000 miles is plenty early enough. DO NOT use dino or non synthetic oil!!!
I have had a (68,000 mile) 2001 Corvette Z06 since new. I have done 6 oil changes (counting the oem fill as 1) in the 68,000 miles. Next due is at 75,000 miles.
In regards to the Mobil One EP, for some reason the EP does not meet the 4178M specification!? While I think you will not have a problem with the EP, you really don't want to give them a reason to deny engine warranty in the very remote chance you should ever need to fulfill onit.
[ April 18, 2005, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
Use Mobil 1, change it according to the oil life monitor and drive the car and enjoy it. Too much to enjoy to obcess over engine oil.
Changing it at 500 and 2000 is a complete waste of time and money...unless a year goes by and that is all the miles you wrack up....LOL
Follow the oil life monitor and use the specified, factory fill Mobil 1 5W30. The engine is filled with Mobil 1 so that, if you decide to run on the race track or do a top end blast across Texas, the oil temp will be OK if it creeps above 305 during the track use. That is the primary reason for the synthetic oil fill to avoid the cost, complexity and long term leak potential of an auxilary oil cooler that would be required otherwise.
Funny how Chevrolet could design, develop and build a world class supercar like the Corvette....but cannot be trusted to tell you which oil to use in the engine. The logic escapes me.... Use the recommended 5W30 Mobil 1 unless you want to do a bunch of oil testing and validation on your own dime.
The old wives tale of not using synthetic in a new engine "because it is so slippery that it won't break in..." is BS spread by the synthetic oil industry years ago to make their product sound good...LOL.... "if it is so slippery that the engine can't break in it must be great stuff.." Nonsense. I have seen hundreds of engines at teardown that were "broken in" on synthetic oil and they do fine. After developing the Corvette engine do you think that the GM Powertrain engineers were so out of it that they "forgot" that the engine might no break in on synthetic oil...???....LOL LOL
The 15K extended life Mobil 1 does not meet the API accepted levels for anti-wear additives and friction modifiers so it is NOT an SG4 oil and does NOT meet the "fuel efficiency" requirements so it is not an SG4 oil and it must be a GF4 oil to meet the OEM oil recommmendation. If it is not GF4 it does not meet the GM specs for the oil either.
[ April 18, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: bbobynski ]
Changing it at 500 and 2000 is a complete waste of time and money...unless a year goes by and that is all the miles you wrack up....LOL
Follow the oil life monitor and use the specified, factory fill Mobil 1 5W30. The engine is filled with Mobil 1 so that, if you decide to run on the race track or do a top end blast across Texas, the oil temp will be OK if it creeps above 305 during the track use. That is the primary reason for the synthetic oil fill to avoid the cost, complexity and long term leak potential of an auxilary oil cooler that would be required otherwise.
Funny how Chevrolet could design, develop and build a world class supercar like the Corvette....but cannot be trusted to tell you which oil to use in the engine. The logic escapes me.... Use the recommended 5W30 Mobil 1 unless you want to do a bunch of oil testing and validation on your own dime.
The old wives tale of not using synthetic in a new engine "because it is so slippery that it won't break in..." is BS spread by the synthetic oil industry years ago to make their product sound good...LOL.... "if it is so slippery that the engine can't break in it must be great stuff.." Nonsense. I have seen hundreds of engines at teardown that were "broken in" on synthetic oil and they do fine. After developing the Corvette engine do you think that the GM Powertrain engineers were so out of it that they "forgot" that the engine might no break in on synthetic oil...???....LOL LOL
The 15K extended life Mobil 1 does not meet the API accepted levels for anti-wear additives and friction modifiers so it is NOT an SG4 oil and does NOT meet the "fuel efficiency" requirements so it is not an SG4 oil and it must be a GF4 oil to meet the OEM oil recommmendation. If it is not GF4 it does not meet the GM specs for the oil either.
[ April 18, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: bbobynski ]
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Please get your used oil analyzed after your first regular OCI. Do not play Russian Roulette with any new car by relying on an OLM System... especially vehicles as expensive as Corvettes. GM only warrants them for the lifetime of your warranty. Your engine could be 1/3rd dead by then due to a faulty OLM that told you 4-5 times in the past that everything was just hunky-dory.
Thanks to everyone who replied (especially ruking77 and bbobynski). This is my first Corvette and I want to be sure it lasts. I have used dino oils for years in all my vehicles( with one exception) and have had excellent results; 1983 Chevy pickup bought new..used Quaker state 10w40 and delco filter..changed oil at 500 miles and then every 4000 thereafter..traded in with 220,000 miles; 1988 Chevy pickup...same oil and filter as above..same change interval..traded in with 319,000 miles; 1995 Chevy caprice...used M1 10w30 and delco filter...changed at 500 miles then every 7000 miles thereafter..after 50,000 miles I noticed a lot of varnish on the inside of the oil fill cap...pulled the valve cover and found lots of sludge...stopped using M1 and went to Pennzoil 10w30...changed every 3000 with delco filter and traded in with 123,000 miles. I now have the opportunity to own something I have always wanted and I don't want to screw up the engine. I've just had bad results with M1 and sludge....maybe it was just me. I'll try it again and see. Thanks guys.
Exactly how can the oil life monitor be "faulty" on the engine....??? It is software and is the same oil life monitor in each Corvette...no way is the software going to be "faulty" in any given car and give some erroneous oil change intervals. You have no idea how the oil life monitor functions to make a statement like this.
Getting an oil sample analysis is probably not a bad idea from a piece of mind standpoint...if you want to waste your time, otherwise.
It says so on the oil filler cap. GM makes sure people know that they put Mobil 1 in their engines.
Stick with full synthetic!!
I've never found a conclusive answer if the factory oil, GM anyway for the Corvette/F-body LSx engines, has any sort of additive in it. If such was the case then changing the oil early would be doing more harm than good. I read up on corvette info now and then and as far as I know they [GM] have never put in any sort of additive, which would make sense because that would cost money. So changing oil early wouldn't hurt other than time and money, but may be worth it for peace of mind. Oil analysis would help if you want to go that route, but certainly not a necessity.
The GM 4718M spec placed on the corvette, and other models, requires oil to do better in high temp high shear conditions and have less oxidation at high temps. This should be obvious when you think about it. It is because the engine runs hot, typically coolant temps 200-220F and with the body style being what it is having less than optimum radiator and engine bay cooling and electric fans not coming on till coolant is around 220F you will see 220+ oil temps routinely, as opposed to the old 350 chevy with 160F thermostat and fan running off the crankshaft serp. belt. And this isn't when you're driving the car like it's made to be driven!
My camaro has no problem running 240F oil temps during the summer in slow moving traffic, and I've had the gauge go past 260F plenty of times (with 220-230F coolant temp).
If you were asking this question a few years ago, I'd say it's a must to go synthetic because of the high oil temps, but today's "dino" oils are way better than yesterdays and will handle high temps better. Wether it's enough to maintain your motor, that's up to you to decide. You should have an oil temp monitor, I'd say if it shows 220F and lower then there is no reason you "must" use synthetic. But my guess is being you are in TX and depending on how you drive the car you're gonna want to stick with a synthetic. Like was said, $60k car don't go looking to save $3 a quart or $20 an oil change.
As for break-in and the car using oil later in life since you started with synthetic, that's somewhat of a myth. There have been some articles that argued that synthetic will hinder piston ring breakin on a "rebuilt" engine due to frictional characteristics of the syn oil. That can very well be true, depending on the oil used and how the cylinder was honed and what piston ring material is being used. However, on factory production engines they've gotten manuf. processes down so that ring breakin and seating basically happens in the first few hours when the motor is run, as in when they start it at the plant to make sure it runs. So in that case there is no reason to shy away from a syn oil on a "factory" new motor from day 1, especially when it comes from the factory with synthetic. If it burns oil later on, it's some other problem. Best advice is to not idle the car early on, load the engine often to get high cylinder pressures which will seat the rings, and prevent coolant/oil from overheating.
What you might want to try is a cheap full-synthetic, one that runs $3 quart vs $5, which would most likely mean it's a group III oil- still dino basically but would (should) handle high temp and oxidation better than conventional name brand dino. Whether it meets GM4718M I don't know, but this might offer the best of both worlds on a new engine. It would be ok in terms of temp, but wouldn't have the frictional characteristics of a true syn and would not hinder ring breakin... theoretically.
The GM 4718M spec placed on the corvette, and other models, requires oil to do better in high temp high shear conditions and have less oxidation at high temps. This should be obvious when you think about it. It is because the engine runs hot, typically coolant temps 200-220F and with the body style being what it is having less than optimum radiator and engine bay cooling and electric fans not coming on till coolant is around 220F you will see 220+ oil temps routinely, as opposed to the old 350 chevy with 160F thermostat and fan running off the crankshaft serp. belt. And this isn't when you're driving the car like it's made to be driven!
My camaro has no problem running 240F oil temps during the summer in slow moving traffic, and I've had the gauge go past 260F plenty of times (with 220-230F coolant temp).
If you were asking this question a few years ago, I'd say it's a must to go synthetic because of the high oil temps, but today's "dino" oils are way better than yesterdays and will handle high temps better. Wether it's enough to maintain your motor, that's up to you to decide. You should have an oil temp monitor, I'd say if it shows 220F and lower then there is no reason you "must" use synthetic. But my guess is being you are in TX and depending on how you drive the car you're gonna want to stick with a synthetic. Like was said, $60k car don't go looking to save $3 a quart or $20 an oil change.
As for break-in and the car using oil later in life since you started with synthetic, that's somewhat of a myth. There have been some articles that argued that synthetic will hinder piston ring breakin on a "rebuilt" engine due to frictional characteristics of the syn oil. That can very well be true, depending on the oil used and how the cylinder was honed and what piston ring material is being used. However, on factory production engines they've gotten manuf. processes down so that ring breakin and seating basically happens in the first few hours when the motor is run, as in when they start it at the plant to make sure it runs. So in that case there is no reason to shy away from a syn oil on a "factory" new motor from day 1, especially when it comes from the factory with synthetic. If it burns oil later on, it's some other problem. Best advice is to not idle the car early on, load the engine often to get high cylinder pressures which will seat the rings, and prevent coolant/oil from overheating.
What you might want to try is a cheap full-synthetic, one that runs $3 quart vs $5, which would most likely mean it's a group III oil- still dino basically but would (should) handle high temp and oxidation better than conventional name brand dino. Whether it meets GM4718M I don't know, but this might offer the best of both worlds on a new engine. It would be ok in terms of temp, but wouldn't have the frictional characteristics of a true syn and would not hinder ring breakin... theoretically.
That is not true. Lots of engine builders reccomend that you change it at the 1st 500 and again around 1,500-2000 miles. I have done this with all my cars and they NEVER burn oil later in life. It is good to keep fresh oil in the engine during break in plus if there are any break in type of shavings it will get them out of the engine.
Change that Vettes oil at 500 miles for sure!!!
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
That is not true. Lots of engine builders reccomend that you change it at the 1st 500 and again around 1,500-2000 miles. I have done this with all my cars and they NEVER burn oil later in life. It is good to keep fresh oil in the engine during break in plus if there are any break in type of shavings it will get them out of the engine.
Please name some of these top American & Japanese auto builders please?
Most engines nowadays have micro-digital allowances that require little or no break-in period. However, you are entitled to waste/dispose-of good oil & your hard-earned money as you see fit.
If it makes you feel better about your vehicle.... that's all that matters!
Please name some of these top American & Japanese auto builders please?
Most engines nowadays have micro-digital allowances that require little or no break-in period. However, you are entitled to waste/dispose-of good oil & your hard-earned money as you see fit.
If it makes you feel better about your vehicle.... that's all that matters!
"I have done this with all my cars and they NEVER burn oil later in life. "
Chris, this is anecdotal evidence, meaning it is simply your observation and not a basis for proof beyond your experience. the real reason for your good fortune later in life probably has little if anything to do with the early oil change. Also you might define "later in life" a bit for us. 80k? 150k? 300k?
For everyone that does what you do, there are at least as many who don't (like me) and get the same results.
such as:
I never change the oil early and NEVER use oil later in life.
See what i mean?
But as was said, whatever floats the boat works. If you sleep better at night, I'm all for it!
Chris, this is anecdotal evidence, meaning it is simply your observation and not a basis for proof beyond your experience. the real reason for your good fortune later in life probably has little if anything to do with the early oil change. Also you might define "later in life" a bit for us. 80k? 150k? 300k?
For everyone that does what you do, there are at least as many who don't (like me) and get the same results.
such as:
I never change the oil early and NEVER use oil later in life.
See what i mean?
But as was said, whatever floats the boat works. If you sleep better at night, I'm all for it!
This has been argued many times before and it has not really been proved eithtor way as far as I have seen. I have read information and talked to folks who build engines and reccomend early oil changes and it simply makes sence(fresh oil=cleaner break in and more protection for the engine). That is why I follow this. We have cars and trucks in our family that had this done and some have over 300,000 miles and burn no oil.
I'm not naming names because of the persons wishes but a highley respected member here who is truly in the "know" reccomends this as well.
I look at it this way, you buy an expensive car you want to take care of it. It cost so little for oil why not keep if fresh? If you are worried about the $15-35 bucks for the oil maybe you should not have bought the car.
I'm not naming names because of the persons wishes but a highley respected member here who is truly in the "know" reccomends this as well.
I look at it this way, you buy an expensive car you want to take care of it. It cost so little for oil why not keep if fresh? If you are worried about the $15-35 bucks for the oil maybe you should not have bought the car.
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