Getting the Word out about General Motors

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: lovcom
To the OP:

Don't appeal to us, the American consumers. Appeal to your bosses, because they are the ones that screwed you, not us.

....



Re-read the post dude. I was not "appealing" to anyone nor asking for your attitude. I know its upper mgt fault all the way and said that before. I'm just showing both sides of the coin because all we hear are the negatives. Nowhere did I blame "you the public" either. So you had [censored] cars, a lot of us have, do what you have to, I can respect that. But do keep an open mind that the quality gap is much smaller now between domestic and foreign - it's proven.


GMBOY, I'm not exactly the worlds biggest GM fan but I appreciate your view from inside the belly of the beast. Please don't let the negative responses discourage you from giving us your view of things.

Thank You very much!

 

[StevieC]

GMBoy... There is nothing wrong with you like GM products... I think they make some great stuff, but they also have quite a bit of problems to fix. I would in a minute flip back over to this company if my needs were met.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and views, as are you for liking to stick with the brand.

I don't blame people like you, I blame the ones who run the companies, and the UAW unions...

It's unfortunate that they are sinking...

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy


But do keep an open mind that the quality gap is much smaller now between domestic and foreign - it's proven.


GMFan,

Where is the proof that the quality gap between domestic and foreign is much smaller now. I keep reading this, but no one shows any proof. links?

 

[IndyIan]

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dep...ge-#page-anchor

From the people I talk to, I think the manufacturers are all pretty close now. A few friends with Civic's had to get struts replaced multiple times, the AWD system on my Mom's CRV needed some unscheduled service. The only one that sticks out as flat out bad, is Volkswagon. No one I know has bought another.
Or maybe my 95 Neon but that is to be expected! and most stuff is an easy cheap fix if you do it yourself.
I don't hear of multiple tranny failures any more or getting stranded anywhere. I guess there are still some known problems with some cars but overall I think they manufacturers and getting closer. I still think Honda and Toyota are better but by how much anymore? And how much more do I have to pay for it? Especially in our used market here, you could almost buy 3 domestic minivans for one Oddessey...
Ian

 

[StevieC]

I think Honda/Toyota know their [censored], and have really great quality but they are they charge and arm/leg for the product. You have to weigh the cost of ownership with no repairs versus the cost of ownership with repairs and see which is a better deal.

I bought a Hyundai because they are trying to beat Toyota/Honda in Quality and have been successful in some ratings, but there price is still low because they're trying to build the brand.

So I think I got the best from both worlds, quality and price for now...

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

From the people I talk to, I think the manufacturers are all pretty close now. . . .
. . . I still think Honda and Toyota are better but by how much anymore? And how much more do I have to pay for it? Especially in our used market here, you could almost buy 3 domestic minivans for one Oddessey...
Ian

Exactly. I'd say the Japanese cars that comes the closest in feel and market niche to my Buick are the Lexus ES300 (or ES330?) or the Toyota Avalon. In '07 I paid about $13K for my then four-year-old Park Avenue in fine condition. Could I get a four-year-old ES or Avalon for that kind of money unless it was trashed? And would the Toyota/Lexus be any better a car or as inexpensive to run?

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Originally Posted By: GMBoy


But do keep an open mind that the quality gap is much smaller now between domestic and foreign - it's proven.


GMFan,

Where is the proof that the quality gap between domestic and foreign is much smaller now. I keep reading this, but no one shows any proof. links?


I don't have any proof but I believe the gap has closed somewhat. I think domestics have gotten better (out of necessity) while the Japanese (particularly Honda) have slipped. Actually its Hondas automatic transmissions that have/are slipping (literally).

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Originally Posted By: GMBoy


But do keep an open mind that the quality gap is much smaller now between domestic and foreign - it's proven.


GMFan,

Where is the proof that the quality gap between domestic and foreign is much smaller now. I keep reading this, but no one shows any proof. links?


Oh that is so easy. There are many articles written, do a search. Plus I am a quality mgr so I see firsthand our quality results from real time customers, dealer warranty costs, and JD power and other survey results. Every year it is better. I also see the competition's results. The quality gap is closed - people need to get off the old "I had a [censored] 1985, 1995 or even 2000 such and such car". Are we fully "there yet"? No, I'll be honest, but we are so close that within the next 5 years (when all the older designed products are discontinued) you'll the difference and hopefully the public will notice it and try GM again. These new GM vehicles are really that good. Problem is once you get a bad reputation you gotta work like heck to change it.

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Problem is once you get a bad reputation you gotta work like heck to change it.


Would you really expect anything else in an industry where new buyers only make a purchase every 3-6 years?

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Problem is once you get a bad reputation you gotta work like heck to change it.


Would you really expect anything else in an industry where new buyers only make a purchase every 3-6 years?



Missing your point here.

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Problem is once you get a bad reputation you gotta work like heck to change it.


Would you really expect anything else in an industry where new buyers only make a purchase every 3-6 years?



Missing your point here.


People that have been burned by bad quality may drift to another manufacturer and buy other products 2-3 times before they realize the grass isnt greener on the other side. When people only buy new cars every 3-6 years this could take a decade to resolve the cycle. Not good for GM, they rested on their laurels for to long relying on brand loyalty to sell cars, now that the loyalty is gone they are paying for it.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Problem is once you get a bad reputation you gotta work like heck to change it.


Would you really expect anything else in an industry where new buyers only make a purchase every 3-6 years?



Missing your point here.





People that have been burned by bad quality may drift to another manufacturer and buy other products 2-3 times before they realize the grass isnt greener on the other side. When people only buy new cars every 3-6 years this could take a decade to resolve the cycle. Not good for GM, they rested on their laurels for to long relying on brand loyalty to sell cars, now that the loyalty is gone they are paying for it.



I understand now and you are 100% correct.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: wapacz

Also should be mentioned those corp jets are used for more than execs. They will use them to send engineers to plants when the plant is having problems producing a part and that part is needed to launch a model or keep production going.



That's the spirit!!!

 

[MarginCalled]

When you manufacture junk, you don't deserve to survive. Rules of the game.

 

[CharBaby]

I can't believe all the misinformation from all the GM haters here. Let GM fail and we'll see how much money you all have to go out and buy your next Japanese car. It will affect the whole economy. I have a GM car (Chevy Impala) made in Canada with a 90% domestic parts content that hasn't had one problem in 5 years and gets better gas mileage than a V6 Accord. Plus less maintenance (no timing belt), cheaper to purchase and cheaper for parts. Also more serviceable. To me it's a no brainer. The Impala is also a larger car.

Have you seen that the Impala has moved to the No.2 spot behind the Toyota Camry and pushing the Honda Accord to No.3? This might only be for the month of October and not quite year end sales but it does show a trend. Unfortunatly, I do know tens'of people with Impala's and other GM vehicles(minivans, trucks, suv's), friends and family alike that can't keep them out of the shop and are currently returning to Honda and Toyota(where they came from). They wanted to try an American vehicle again but were let down. Chrysler? Forget it!
I like the Impala. I've driven the Impala. Nice car! Especially the newest version. Love the new Malibu! I must admit that Im stuck in the forign car mode due to the poor succuss I've had with the domestics. It makes me afraid to return because I had such great luck with my Toyhondissanbaru's. Tons of miles and few issues.

 

[StevieC]

Char_Baby:

My dad used to work for Chrysler... He drives a Chrysler Mini-Van, my mom drives a Kia Spectra and I drive Hyundai Santa Fe. We drive these vehicles for these reasons:

Mom - Tons of doemestic vehicles that constantly needed service and part replacement, and was very un-reliable even though it was looked after with regular maitenance.

Me - I drive for a living and can't afford break downs and time in the shop as my domestic vehicles always seemed to need.

Dad - Retired and bought the mini-van for $100.00 from a friend who thought he blew the engine. (needed a head gasket).

My brother drives a 95 Neon, because it was given to him and it's been nothing but a pile of [censored]. He doesn't care because he's at MIT and only uses it once and a while to drive cross town.

Sister has a Hyundai Elantra, and it's almost 10 years old with 200,000KM on it and it starts, runs, and takes all the abuse my sisters "I just put gas in it" attitude can throw at it.

We would all love to support my dads pension by buying domestic, but I'm hard pressed to see how it would be a better value or experience.

Got nothing against supporting the North American economy, but my dollar invested in one of their cars has to return to me the same value as our "Foreign" ones do.

 

[StevieC]

.. To Add... Besides... Hyundai is building a brand new state of the art plant in Alabama. Honda is built in the US, and Toyota I believe is too... We also have Honda/Toyota in Canada.

So while it will temporarily hurt the economy letting the big-3 loose profitability or go bankrupt, the demand will transfer to the remaining auto makers in your country anyways... Creating new jobs for these people.

The real problem is that the economy is very lean for money and the markets saturated with cars... So any way you look at it, we had to cut some manufacturers out of the market due to the lack of demand.

This was determined by the amount of units each one sold, and unfortunately because of the poor quality from the Big-3 in the past, it was decided by customer taking their money else where that it would be the big-3.

I think we will notice quite the recession and the economy will struggle, but it will have to pick back up...

This all happened before in the 50/60's with the Appliance industry, and we are all still here 40-50 years later.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
.. To Add... Besides... Hyundai is building a brand new state of the art plant in Alabama. Honda is built in the US, and Toyota I believe is too... We also have Honda/Toyota in Canada.

So while it will temporarily hurt the economy letting the big-3 loose profitability or go bankrupt, the demand will transfer to the remaining auto makers in your country anyways... Creating new jobs for these people.

The real problem is that the economy is very lean for money and the markets saturated with cars... So any way you look at it, we had to cut some manufacturers out of the market due to the lack of demand.

This was determined by the amount of units each one sold, and unfortunately because of the poor quality from the Big-3 in the past, it was decided by customer taking their money else where that it would be the big-3.

I think we will notice quite the recession and the economy will struggle, but it will have to pick back up...

This all happened before in the 50/60's with the Appliance industry, and we are all still here 40-50 years later.


Yup, with almost zero in the way of domestic appliances.

With almost zero in the way of domestic stereo equipment.

If the domestic manufacturers are displaced, what is to prevent the Japanese auto manufacturers from picking up their assembly plants and moving them to China or Mexico with far cheaper labour? After all, it's not like they would have to promote the "friendly for America" image anymore with no "domestic" competition.....

I do not put faith in people. I work in an industry where security is paramount; the evils of mankind wear on somebody after a while. I have a hard time believing that Toyota's "Global Domination" scheme is built on a foundation of good intentions.

Mankind if competitive by nature; has been since the beginning. From bashing each other's heads in with rocks to wars and arms races, we strive for superiority over "the other"; whoever that is defined as during that time.

Manufacturing is no different. When a domestic manufacturer cannot sell their product on their home soil, they have essentially lost. And to the victor go the spoils. When the victor is a foreign company who has appeased and wooed those on your home soil; ultimately being instrumental in this failure, and the government itself has very much AIDED in this development, I find it hard to be positive about the resultant outcome.... which we have not yet bore witness to.

Call me pessimistic, but the last time this much industry was displaced was after the fall of Nazi Germany.......

 

[pbm]

I own both a GM and a Honda and both are great cars. Both also have/had inherent problems. My Buick 3.1 has/had the notorious intake manifold leak while my Accord has the problematic A/T. The Honda A/T came with substandard carrier bearings which cause its early demise. Honda acknowledged this by extending the warranty on the A/T while GM denied there was a problem. This 'attitude' cost GM dearly with loyal customers. While it would have been costly to fix every 3.1 under warranty it would have been less costly than where GM is now (on the brink of bankruptcy). Arrogant, top heavy and overpaid management combined with an 'entitlement' mentality by many at the UAW have brought the once proud company to the brink. It will take a major change in attitude and expectations for GM to compete. Let's hope that all involved (including Congress) realize this before committing OUR tax dollars.

 

[mikered30]

What is everyone's opinion of letting Chrysler fail and have the government bail out GM and Ford, with the condition that all new plants being built by GM and Ford must be in the US?