I have a 06 2500 Ram with the 5.9 cummins.I was looking at the amsoil set up but its about $200 by time your done.whats a good alternative?
Richard
Richard
need a good oil bypass set up for a 06 5.9 cummins
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the Amsoil is the best value on the market if you look at the ease and cost of maintenance. There are many brands on the market.Why do you need a bypass filter?
I'd put a big filter on that engine myself. A LF750 housing with either a good off the shelf filter or use paper towels. Mount the filter in front of the rear axle between the bed side and the frame.
The Motor Gaurd and Frantz filters are good, but a bit on the small side for that baby Cummins. Be nice if there was a nice housing that was between the MG and the LF750.
The FS2500 seems to be popular with the Diesel Pickup guys, I have no personal experience with them however so I can't really say how effective they are.
The Motor Gaurd and Frantz filters are good, but a bit on the small side for that baby Cummins. Be nice if there was a nice housing that was between the MG and the LF750.
The FS2500 seems to be popular with the Diesel Pickup guys, I have no personal experience with them however so I can't really say how effective they are.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
the Amsoil is the best value on the market if you look at the ease and cost of maintenance. There are many brands on the market.Why do you need a bypass filter?
STEVE ... Why do you even bother coming to this forum???
The only in put you ever have is : Don't waste you time with a bypass...just change your oil on a regular schedule..
Move on ..go to another forum ..your complaint is getting very old
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1283838#Post1283838
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1270251&nt=3&fpart=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1261855&fpart=2
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1250504&gonew=1#UNREAD
I checked 6 threads and came up with 4 slams from you
the Amsoil is the best value on the market if you look at the ease and cost of maintenance. There are many brands on the market.Why do you need a bypass filter?
STEVE ... Why do you even bother coming to this forum???
The only in put you ever have is : Don't waste you time with a bypass...just change your oil on a regular schedule..
Move on ..go to another forum ..your complaint is getting very old
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1283838#Post1283838
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1270251&nt=3&fpart=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1261855&fpart=2
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1250504&gonew=1#UNREAD
I checked 6 threads and came up with 4 slams from you
Last edited:
dnewton3
Staff member
There are very good reasons to put on a bypass filter system.
There are very bad reasons to put on a bypass filter system.
It is up to the owner/purchaser to decide what is "best" for his or her application. "Best" is a word that is just too often used, and too little understood.
We need to know a lot more about how the vehicle is driven, how often the oil is intended to be changed, how (or if) the lubricant is to be monitored, the operating environment, the lubricant selection, the tolerance for cost vs. reward, etc.
Bypass filtration's greatest asset is extending the OCI. If one either cannot or will not extend the OCI, then the benefits of bypass filtration shrink considerably. Engine wear can be mitigated by OCI interval in nearly all but extreme cases, so that becomes a moot point.
If you're looking for performance differences, that's a wash as well. All the major brands that I know of (Amsoil, Filtration Solutions, Oil Guard, Gulf Coast, Frantz, Motor Guard, etc) do a fantastic job of getting the contaminats down to such a low level (below 3um) that it's a baseless argument to decide which is "best". Engine life becomes nearly infinite below 8um or so, so who cares how deep you can go beyond that.
The "best" choice is the one that fits your budget, blends installation with serviceability, and allows for reasonable replacement filter element costs.
There are very bad reasons to put on a bypass filter system.
It is up to the owner/purchaser to decide what is "best" for his or her application. "Best" is a word that is just too often used, and too little understood.
We need to know a lot more about how the vehicle is driven, how often the oil is intended to be changed, how (or if) the lubricant is to be monitored, the operating environment, the lubricant selection, the tolerance for cost vs. reward, etc.
Bypass filtration's greatest asset is extending the OCI. If one either cannot or will not extend the OCI, then the benefits of bypass filtration shrink considerably. Engine wear can be mitigated by OCI interval in nearly all but extreme cases, so that becomes a moot point.
If you're looking for performance differences, that's a wash as well. All the major brands that I know of (Amsoil, Filtration Solutions, Oil Guard, Gulf Coast, Frantz, Motor Guard, etc) do a fantastic job of getting the contaminats down to such a low level (below 3um) that it's a baseless argument to decide which is "best". Engine life becomes nearly infinite below 8um or so, so who cares how deep you can go beyond that.
The "best" choice is the one that fits your budget, blends installation with serviceability, and allows for reasonable replacement filter element costs.
Last edited:
For a lower initial cost and low maintenance, the Frantz or Baldwin setups would be a good alternative. There are extensive write-ups on both...
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Quote:
STEVE ... Why do you even bother coming to this forum???
Awww.. don't be too hard on SteveS. Every leaning needs its counter balance. I mean ..what is Hannity without his Colmes?
SteveS ..a lone voice of alternative view ..in an otherwise irrational world. He cares enough to try and save you from yourself.
STEVE ... Why do you even bother coming to this forum???
Awww.. don't be too hard on SteveS. Every leaning needs its counter balance. I mean ..what is Hannity without his Colmes?
SteveS ..a lone voice of alternative view ..in an otherwise irrational world. He cares enough to try and save you from yourself.
I use the Amsoil version now...I just swapped out the mount and filter from my Baldwin B50 setup...
As for the differance I can't tell you, I have some UOA's with particle counts and the Baldwin did a fine job...If the Amsoil does not do a better job I will put the Baldwin back on.
The cost of a B50 online with shipping in case qty = $6 each
The cost of a Amsoil bypass filter w/shipping ect = I don't remember but it was better than $30
Bottom line is IF you want a bypass you can't go wrong with any that have been listed in this forum.
As for the differance I can't tell you, I have some UOA's with particle counts and the Baldwin did a fine job...If the Amsoil does not do a better job I will put the Baldwin back on.
The cost of a B50 online with shipping in case qty = $6 each
The cost of a Amsoil bypass filter w/shipping ect = I don't remember but it was better than $30
Bottom line is IF you want a bypass you can't go wrong with any that have been listed in this forum.
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It's mostly a matter of service convenience and longevity in service. If you go with Frantz or MG ..the level of filtration is outstanding ..but the service life is short. If you can avoid adding too much oil in the filter swap out, then you're ahead of the game ..by a decent margin ..if you can live with the frequent service interval. Otherwise, you're using 10-15 quarts of oil over 30k. In the case of the Cummins, that's just slightly out of phase with what you would normally use over the same mileage, albeit with finer filtration along the way. If you can do a "perpetual sump" ..it's not mature for a very long time.
@3k per change (assuming one quart per filter change) it take 90k before the new added quart is at a higher percentage than the original sump. 60k if 2k is used for the change out rate.
That is, 60k-90k is where your UOA will show the worst case scenario for the condition of the oil. From there on out any added oil is greater than the oldest oil in the sump. You're sorta in free fall at that point.
@3k per change (assuming one quart per filter change) it take 90k before the new added quart is at a higher percentage than the original sump. 60k if 2k is used for the change out rate.
That is, 60k-90k is where your UOA will show the worst case scenario for the condition of the oil. From there on out any added oil is greater than the oldest oil in the sump. You're sorta in free fall at that point.
I guess you lost me on that "slightly out of phase" comment...based on your numbers, he would get 30k before using 15 quarts of makeup oil, which is only three quarts more than a single oil change (the 12-valves took 11 quarts, the 24-valves take 12 quarts).
The OCI for the Cummins (in the 3rd generation) is 7500 miles for severe service or 15k for normal service (and if you read that fine print, not many of us actually fall under the normal service category). Based on that, he might actually complete slightly more than a single sump change-out in 30k, whereas before he might have changed the oil four times on the 7500 OCI or at least twice on the 15k OCI.
Additionally, by adding makeup oil routinely, he is keeping that oil fresh, the additive packages up, and any contaminants in check.
The OCI for the Cummins (in the 3rd generation) is 7500 miles for severe service or 15k for normal service (and if you read that fine print, not many of us actually fall under the normal service category). Based on that, he might actually complete slightly more than a single sump change-out in 30k, whereas before he might have changed the oil four times on the 7500 OCI or at least twice on the 15k OCI.
Additionally, by adding makeup oil routinely, he is keeping that oil fresh, the additive packages up, and any contaminants in check.
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Everyone perceives severe service when they own one of these things. The same engine is expected to do it's job day in and day out and competes with other power plants for cost of maintenance. If you're not tinkering with it or operating it at higher rpm constantly, then I don't see it being severe.
We've got nearly 20k of people here that perceive severe here. I tend to think it's some badge of honor.
The out of phase comment is that you're starting with a new sump that can take you out to 7.5k/15k. So ...12 quarts gives you (up to) 30k of usage before additional oil is bought. TP gives you 24k @2k 36k@ 3k per ...but if you're never changing the sump, the sumps aren't comparable in age.
How do you handle the perceived difference between severe service and normal service with a tp filter? One would assume that if your duty is truly severe ..that the tp roll should need service more often.
Don't get me wrong. I own a vintage Frantz and Motor Guard ..and I also have a superb PALL canister filter that uses DOE (double open end) cotton wound filters. This is in addition to the Amsoil Dual Guard. They all do a great job.
The thing with a tp/pt filter is that it depends on the perpetual sump to make it pay ..if you're operating at some sensible economy.
@ 2k tp changes it takes 60k to reach the mature sump
@ 3k tp changes it takes 90k to reach the mature sump
I'll show you the quick version. Keep in mind that with every quart added due to tp change, that you're also removing a percentage of the last quart you added.
(we'll just use 2k for the moment and we'll assume)
2k and a 12+1 sump)
0k 100% new sump
2k 92.3% original sump
4k 85.2%
6k 78.6%
8k 72.6%
10 66.9%
12 61.8%
14 57,0%
16 52.6%
18 48.6% (here, at 18k about half your sump is 18k old ..and the added oil is NOT new)
20 44.8%
22 41.4%
24 38.3%
26 35.4%
28 32.6%
30 30.1%
32 27.8%
34 25.7%
36 23.7%
38 21.9%
40 20.2%
42 18.3%
44 16.9%
46 15.6%
48 14.4%
50 13.3%
52 12.6%
54 11.3%
56 10.4%
58 9.6%
60 8.9%
62 8.2%
64 7.5% (here is where the new added oil is equal to the oldest oil in the sump).
If you go to 3k per tp roll..then it's 96k
We've got nearly 20k of people here that perceive severe here. I tend to think it's some badge of honor.
The out of phase comment is that you're starting with a new sump that can take you out to 7.5k/15k. So ...12 quarts gives you (up to) 30k of usage before additional oil is bought. TP gives you 24k @2k 36k@ 3k per ...but if you're never changing the sump, the sumps aren't comparable in age.
How do you handle the perceived difference between severe service and normal service with a tp filter? One would assume that if your duty is truly severe ..that the tp roll should need service more often.
Don't get me wrong. I own a vintage Frantz and Motor Guard ..and I also have a superb PALL canister filter that uses DOE (double open end) cotton wound filters. This is in addition to the Amsoil Dual Guard. They all do a great job.
The thing with a tp/pt filter is that it depends on the perpetual sump to make it pay ..if you're operating at some sensible economy.
@ 2k tp changes it takes 60k to reach the mature sump
@ 3k tp changes it takes 90k to reach the mature sump
I'll show you the quick version. Keep in mind that with every quart added due to tp change, that you're also removing a percentage of the last quart you added.
(we'll just use 2k for the moment and we'll assume)
2k and a 12+1 sump)
0k 100% new sump
2k 92.3% original sump
4k 85.2%
6k 78.6%
8k 72.6%
10 66.9%
12 61.8%
14 57,0%
16 52.6%
18 48.6% (here, at 18k about half your sump is 18k old ..and the added oil is NOT new)
20 44.8%
22 41.4%
24 38.3%
26 35.4%
28 32.6%
30 30.1%
32 27.8%
34 25.7%
36 23.7%
38 21.9%
40 20.2%
42 18.3%
44 16.9%
46 15.6%
48 14.4%
50 13.3%
52 12.6%
54 11.3%
56 10.4%
58 9.6%
60 8.9%
62 8.2%
64 7.5% (here is where the new added oil is equal to the oldest oil in the sump).
If you go to 3k per tp roll..then it's 96k
I don't understand why this "percentage" is even a concern if the oil is coming back suitable for continued use (based on UOA)? Do I really care if the oil is XX old as long as its still OK for continued use and within design parameters? The way you play with numbers, it makes it sound like the oil is "spoiled" at 64k, which is definitely not the case. I think its a benefit adding oil during the life cycle of the original sump, you make it sound like its a bad thing.
The owner's manual for the Dodge Cummins does state the specific parameters that characterize "severe duty", and basically anything but the ideal 15 mile trip at 45mph, with no load, constitutes a severe duty cycle.
The owner's manual for the Dodge Cummins does state the specific parameters that characterize "severe duty", and basically anything but the ideal 15 mile trip at 45mph, with no load, constitutes a severe duty cycle.
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deeter ....what I'm saying is that it takes 64k to know where the sump is at it's "continuous" condition. If you're doing annual UOA ..fine ..and if it will let you reach 64k ..great. I'm just pointing out how long it takes before the sump is mature.
Quote:
he owner's manual for the Dodge Cummins does state the specific parameters that characterize "severe duty", and basically anything but the ideal 15 mile trip at 45mph, with no load, constitutes a severe duty cycle.
Then only a pickup truck owner would be caught buying one. This engine ..the same engine..is offered in a variety of chassis. If a commercial operator can't escape severe duty ..then he's not going to use this power plant. Cummins isn't going to be tagged as an expensive engine to operate.
Quote:
he owner's manual for the Dodge Cummins does state the specific parameters that characterize "severe duty", and basically anything but the ideal 15 mile trip at 45mph, with no load, constitutes a severe duty cycle.
Then only a pickup truck owner would be caught buying one. This engine ..the same engine..is offered in a variety of chassis. If a commercial operator can't escape severe duty ..then he's not going to use this power plant. Cummins isn't going to be tagged as an expensive engine to operate.
Originally Posted By: deepsquat
Originally Posted By: Steve S
the Amsoil is the best value on the market if you look at the ease and cost of maintenance. There are many brands on the market.Why do you need a bypass filter?
STEVE ... Why do you even bother coming to this forum???
The only in put you ever have is : Don't waste you time with a bypass...just change your oil on a regular schedule..
Move on ..go to another forum ..your complaint is getting very old
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1283838#Post1283838
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1270251&nt=3&fpart=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1261855&fpart=2
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1250504&gonew=1#UNREAD
I checked 6 threads and came up with 4 slams from you
It is amazing you can count up to 4!!
Originally Posted By: Steve S
the Amsoil is the best value on the market if you look at the ease and cost of maintenance. There are many brands on the market.Why do you need a bypass filter?
STEVE ... Why do you even bother coming to this forum???
The only in put you ever have is : Don't waste you time with a bypass...just change your oil on a regular schedule..
Move on ..go to another forum ..your complaint is getting very old
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1283838#Post1283838
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1270251&nt=3&fpart=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1261855&fpart=2
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1250504&gonew=1#UNREAD
I checked 6 threads and came up with 4 slams from you
It is amazing you can count up to 4!!
Hi,
dnewton3 - You said this:
"The "best" choice is the one that fits your budget, blends installation with serviceability, and allows for reasonable replacement filter element costs."
I totally agree but would add - check out the cost effectiveness first!
Most by-pass filtration systems simply cannot be justified unless it is on a highly utilised engine - say @ around 40kkms (25k miles) per year
There are better alternatives than the installation of any by-pass filtration system on an engine in normal service and even in what some people may call "severe service"
dnewton3 - You said this:
"The "best" choice is the one that fits your budget, blends installation with serviceability, and allows for reasonable replacement filter element costs."
I totally agree but would add - check out the cost effectiveness first!
Most by-pass filtration systems simply cannot be justified unless it is on a highly utilised engine - say @ around 40kkms (25k miles) per year
There are better alternatives than the installation of any by-pass filtration system on an engine in normal service and even in what some people may call "severe service"
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Hi, Doug. No one argues the typical ROI on bypass filtration. You can't make normal sensible scales of economics work (for most here). You'll be retiring a very clean engine in a chassis that's fatigued.
Some people really like to retire clean engines and/or do extended drains. They're going to fall out of the sensible economics of the thing. Personally, if you're going to "bling out" your Cummins/Power Stroke/Duramax, I'd prefer someone do it with a bypass filter instead of BullyDog or Banks.
Some people really like to retire clean engines and/or do extended drains. They're going to fall out of the sensible economics of the thing. Personally, if you're going to "bling out" your Cummins/Power Stroke/Duramax, I'd prefer someone do it with a bypass filter instead of BullyDog or Banks.
Gary no body sees the bypass filter .Either you run a stock truck or modify and bolt on stuff so it looks different but exactly the same as everyone elses who modified and bolted on stuff.
Still with all the posts there is not one that really sells the use of a bypass filter on a passenger type vehicle. Deepsquat you seen to have opinions why should Richard 94578 run a bypass filter and what will be gained.
Personal opinion--
For most individuals, bypass filters used with a good synthetic oil don't make economic sense in gasoline engines. Cost of annual oil analysis outweighs the cost of oil plus filter, unless there is a mechanical problem which might arise.
For diesel engines, bypass filter plus a good synthetic engine oil makes sense. Cost of analysis is much less than cost of oil/filter replacement.
For fleet use, bypass filters and oil analysis can be economical.
One individual can take a dozen oil samples in the same time it would take to change oil. The analysis reports can help determine the status of the vehicles and a possible change time (obviously in conjunction with physical condition). I know of a fleet of some 150 vehicles/pieces of equipment running bypass filters and using 6 month analysis (mostly diesels) with just one man in charge of the program. The owner feels that the cost of the current system has saved him thousands of dollars a year.
I've had bypass filters on several of my own vehicles--all gas.
Other than to be able to pop the hood and show someone what it is, not really a big deal.
For most individuals, bypass filters used with a good synthetic oil don't make economic sense in gasoline engines. Cost of annual oil analysis outweighs the cost of oil plus filter, unless there is a mechanical problem which might arise.
For diesel engines, bypass filter plus a good synthetic engine oil makes sense. Cost of analysis is much less than cost of oil/filter replacement.
For fleet use, bypass filters and oil analysis can be economical.
One individual can take a dozen oil samples in the same time it would take to change oil. The analysis reports can help determine the status of the vehicles and a possible change time (obviously in conjunction with physical condition). I know of a fleet of some 150 vehicles/pieces of equipment running bypass filters and using 6 month analysis (mostly diesels) with just one man in charge of the program. The owner feels that the cost of the current system has saved him thousands of dollars a year.
I've had bypass filters on several of my own vehicles--all gas.
Other than to be able to pop the hood and show someone what it is, not really a big deal.
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