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One's a single speed, the other one has an 8 speed internally geared hub. Prices start at a little under $1,000. The only other manufacturer that offers a mass-produced bikes with belt drive is Strida, I think.
Trek has now two belt drive bikes
- Thread starter moribundman
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That's really interesting! Have you driven one?
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No, I haven't. Supposedly they have eliminated belt stretch and slippage.
I am always interested in chainless bikes. While I like my shaft drive bike, it's currently not a perfect system (for most people).
I am always interested in chainless bikes. While I like my shaft drive bike, it's currently not a perfect system (for most people).
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For what reasons?
I looked at the Trek site and did not see them. What models are we talking about here?
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The models are District and Soho.
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/urban/district/district/
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/urban/soho/soho/
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/urban/district/district/
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/urban/soho/soho/
I don't think the chain has been beat yet for efficiency. Which may not matter for some people but most semi serious bikers don't ride around with their brakes dragging.
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I don't think
Fine by me.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
most semi serious bikers don't ride around with their brakes dragging.
I ride on average 5k miles per year. My brakes are not dragging.
I don't think
Fine by me.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
most semi serious bikers don't ride around with their brakes dragging.
I ride on average 5k miles per year. My brakes are not dragging.
Thanks Mori.
I've read that carbon fiber reinforced timing belt drives (the Treks have them) can have as high as 99% efficiency and the efficiency doesn't drop off as long as they are reasonably clean. That puts them ahead of a chain, particularly a chain being tortured by a derailleur that isn't cleaned and lubed daily.
I've never heard anything particularly good about multi-speed bicycle hub efficiency, but combining it with a belt is a step in the right direction. The combo is prolly more efficient than the average chain derailleur combo that is on the road with average maintenance today.
I've never heard anything particularly good about multi-speed bicycle hub efficiency, but combining it with a belt is a step in the right direction. The combo is prolly more efficient than the average chain derailleur combo that is on the road with average maintenance today.
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Speaking of the belt drive, I would expect it to be ideal in a humid environment, but not in a sandy environment. I ride my bike along always along the beach where 30 mph wind gusts blow salt and sand with force. Chain-driven bikes have to be maintained meticulously unless you ride them only on calm days. The enclosed shaft drive eliminates much of the routine maintenance.
Shaft drive pros:
- ultra smooth
- ultra quiet
- super responsive (no chain stretch)
- low maintenance (but with caveats, see cons)
- clean (no grease on clothes)
- 10 " ground clearance
- ideal for cruising due to shaft drive mass
- inexpensive replacement parts
Shaft drive cons:
- quality of gears and drive shaft is a bit cheap (supposed service life is 6k-10k miles, I d say half of that is realistic -- complete drive replacement only ca $90. Would prefer higher quality parts). Regular inspection required, in my opinion. That sort of negates the advantage of low maintenance
- not ideal for extreme uphill (>15°) riding, because the drive system is undersized for adults; that also means the system is not suitable for use in a true MTB
- not ideal for stop-and-go, due to shaft drive mass
Shaft drive pros:
- ultra smooth
- ultra quiet
- super responsive (no chain stretch)
- low maintenance (but with caveats, see cons)
- clean (no grease on clothes)
- 10 " ground clearance
- ideal for cruising due to shaft drive mass
- inexpensive replacement parts
Shaft drive cons:
- quality of gears and drive shaft is a bit cheap (supposed service life is 6k-10k miles, I d say half of that is realistic -- complete drive replacement only ca $90. Would prefer higher quality parts). Regular inspection required, in my opinion. That sort of negates the advantage of low maintenance
- not ideal for extreme uphill (>15°) riding, because the drive system is undersized for adults; that also means the system is not suitable for use in a true MTB
- not ideal for stop-and-go, due to shaft drive mass
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Originally Posted By: XS650
I've never heard anything particularly good about multi-speed bicycle hub efficiency
Every internally geared hub has one direct drive gear. In my Nexus-8 it is the 5th gear. Efficiency loss through the geared system is usually offset by the lack of other factors (dirt, rust, wear, poor adjustment) that increase friction in a derailleur and chain ring system. I have always found internally geared hubs to provide more satisfactory and reliable service.
If it's all about efficiency and weight in a perfectly maintained racing bike, then we need not discuss the issue. I am sure 99% of riders on BITOG fit in the semi-pro and pro racing category, and they are best off showing off their leotard-clad hard bodies on ultra-efficient racing bikes.
I've never heard anything particularly good about multi-speed bicycle hub efficiency
Every internally geared hub has one direct drive gear. In my Nexus-8 it is the 5th gear. Efficiency loss through the geared system is usually offset by the lack of other factors (dirt, rust, wear, poor adjustment) that increase friction in a derailleur and chain ring system. I have always found internally geared hubs to provide more satisfactory and reliable service.
If it's all about efficiency and weight in a perfectly maintained racing bike, then we need not discuss the issue. I am sure 99% of riders on BITOG fit in the semi-pro and pro racing category, and they are best off showing off their leotard-clad hard bodies on ultra-efficient racing bikes.
Originally Posted By: moribundman
XS650 said:If it's all about efficiency and weight in a perfectly maintained racing bike, then we need not discuss the issue. I am sure 99% of riders on BITOG fit in the semi-pro and pro racing category, and they are best off showing off their leotard-clad hard bodies on ultra-efficient racing bikes.
I guess I ride more for entertainment these days, I used to race XC and DH and I still like going racing speed, just for shorter periods of time... Both my bikes are aluminum hardtails so when I stomp the pedals they accelerate pretty good! I like it that way. So adding a heavy expensive draggy internal hub so I can use a belt doesn't sound to good to me. It sounds good for your riding style since you are happy with shaft drive.
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It has nothing to do with my riding style. It has to do with where and under what conditions I ride. Apparently you missed that. And no, a belt drive won't be ideal for me, as I already explained, but which you also missed. The level of comprehension level keeps dropping.
Unless you have actually tried out in person anything else than that with which you are familiar, you should be careful prejudging, unless you don't mind looking narrow-minded. Second and third hand knowledge is a poor source of information.
Unless you have actually tried out in person anything else than that with which you are familiar, you should be careful prejudging, unless you don't mind looking narrow-minded. Second and third hand knowledge is a poor source of information.
I think those belt-pulley systems are made by Gates. Nice stuff.
Going back almost twenty years, when I became a Generac Generator dealer, their home unit was a Briggs V Twin with the generator next to it driven by a belt. They offered up a lifetime warranty on the belt. I was impressed by that then.
My only concern with this system would be sand eating away at the pulleys.
Mori, you should check out the single speeder thread at mtbr.com. You'd be the king over there.
Going back almost twenty years, when I became a Generac Generator dealer, their home unit was a Briggs V Twin with the generator next to it driven by a belt. They offered up a lifetime warranty on the belt. I was impressed by that then.
My only concern with this system would be sand eating away at the pulleys.
Mori, you should check out the single speeder thread at mtbr.com. You'd be the king over there.
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I use a Gates TB and Gates belt tensioner in my Audi.
Don't forget what happened to The Man Who Would Be King.
Don't forget what happened to The Man Who Would Be King.
Originally Posted By: moribundman
It has nothing to do with my riding style. It has to do with where and under what conditions I ride. Apparently you missed that. And no, a belt drive won't be ideal for me, as I already explained, but which you also missed. The level of comprehension level keeps dropping.
Unless you have actually tried out in person anything else than that with which you are familiar, you should be careful prejudging, unless you don't mind looking narrow-minded. Second and third hand knowledge is a poor source of information.
Don't you ride in conditions that favour something other than a chain? And you're not worried about weight? Your salt and sand story sounds to me like a belt and gear hub would be good for you. Maybe you don't need more than one gear so just a belt is fine?
I guess I see it as complexity I don't need, it hasn't been proven as better in competition and I'm not going to be an early adopter to tell them the problems... Getting first hand info can be expensive! That's why all these forum exist, to use second hand knowledge to make decisions.
One of the things I like about bikes in general is their simplicity, and how easy they are to work on. Some designs are pretty close to ideal even if they are old. Diamond frames with chain drive and rim brakes are one of them for me. If I lived in the mountains than I'd have to get disc brakes but I don't so the simple V brake provides all the one finger nose wheelies I can handle.
Ian
It has nothing to do with my riding style. It has to do with where and under what conditions I ride. Apparently you missed that. And no, a belt drive won't be ideal for me, as I already explained, but which you also missed. The level of comprehension level keeps dropping.
Unless you have actually tried out in person anything else than that with which you are familiar, you should be careful prejudging, unless you don't mind looking narrow-minded. Second and third hand knowledge is a poor source of information.
Don't you ride in conditions that favour something other than a chain? And you're not worried about weight? Your salt and sand story sounds to me like a belt and gear hub would be good for you. Maybe you don't need more than one gear so just a belt is fine?
I guess I see it as complexity I don't need, it hasn't been proven as better in competition and I'm not going to be an early adopter to tell them the problems... Getting first hand info can be expensive! That's why all these forum exist, to use second hand knowledge to make decisions.
One of the things I like about bikes in general is their simplicity, and how easy they are to work on. Some designs are pretty close to ideal even if they are old. Diamond frames with chain drive and rim brakes are one of them for me. If I lived in the mountains than I'd have to get disc brakes but I don't so the simple V brake provides all the one finger nose wheelies I can handle.
Ian
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I really don't know why I even bother...
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Don't you ride in conditions that favour something other than a chain?
I WAS talking about the conditions under which I ride. You were talking about my riding style.
Quote:
And you're not worried about weight?
Why would I be worried about the 1 lbs that the shaft drive adds over a conventional setup? I don't ride competitively, so I'm not a weight weenie. Besides, any extra weight only increases the workout.
Quote:
Your salt and sand story sounds to me like a belt and gear hub would be good for you.
A belt is normally unsuitable in a sandy environment. Synthetics tend to abrade horribly in the presence of sand. Thanks for pointing out an internally geared hub will "be good" for me. I already mentioned that, I believe?
Quote:
Maybe you don't need more than one gear so just a belt is fine?
I live in a place that is hilly by nature. I'm not a masochist. I have no interest in single speed bikes. I made this thread because I thought it was interesting, not because I personally was interested in acquiring a bike with belt drive.
Quote:
I guess I see it as complexity I don't need, it hasn't been proven as better in competition and I'm not going to be an early adopter to tell them the problems...
You are just plain in the wrong thread, in case you haven't noticed. One of those belt drive bikes is a single speed road bike, the other one is a commuter bike.
Quote:
Getting first hand info can be expensive! That's why all these forum exist, to use second hand knowledge to make decisions.
This thread isn't about competition bikes.
Quote:
One of the things I like about bikes in general is their simplicity, and how easy they are to work on. Some designs are pretty close to ideal even if they are old. Diamond frames with chain drive and rim brakes are one of them for me. If I lived in the mountains than I'd have to get disc brakes but I don't so the simple V brake provides all the one finger nose wheelies I can handle.
Ian
This thread isn't about conventional bikes.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Don't you ride in conditions that favour something other than a chain?
I WAS talking about the conditions under which I ride. You were talking about my riding style.
Quote:
And you're not worried about weight?
Why would I be worried about the 1 lbs that the shaft drive adds over a conventional setup? I don't ride competitively, so I'm not a weight weenie. Besides, any extra weight only increases the workout.
Quote:
Your salt and sand story sounds to me like a belt and gear hub would be good for you.
A belt is normally unsuitable in a sandy environment. Synthetics tend to abrade horribly in the presence of sand. Thanks for pointing out an internally geared hub will "be good" for me. I already mentioned that, I believe?
Quote:
Maybe you don't need more than one gear so just a belt is fine?
I live in a place that is hilly by nature. I'm not a masochist. I have no interest in single speed bikes. I made this thread because I thought it was interesting, not because I personally was interested in acquiring a bike with belt drive.
Quote:
I guess I see it as complexity I don't need, it hasn't been proven as better in competition and I'm not going to be an early adopter to tell them the problems...
You are just plain in the wrong thread, in case you haven't noticed. One of those belt drive bikes is a single speed road bike, the other one is a commuter bike.
Quote:
Getting first hand info can be expensive! That's why all these forum exist, to use second hand knowledge to make decisions.
This thread isn't about competition bikes.
Quote:
One of the things I like about bikes in general is their simplicity, and how easy they are to work on. Some designs are pretty close to ideal even if they are old. Diamond frames with chain drive and rim brakes are one of them for me. If I lived in the mountains than I'd have to get disc brakes but I don't so the simple V brake provides all the one finger nose wheelies I can handle.
Ian
This thread isn't about conventional bikes.
I'm curious how they tension and maintain tension on the belts. cogged belts must have fairly high tension by design. a little looseness and they start skipping.
I like the bikes.
I like the bikes.
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