Don't hollow points have a higher chance of jamming in a semi-auto? This would lead me to feel somewhat nervous about using them. But, as said earlier, I guess if I practiced using various brands I could tell what ammo would give me any problems.
Ideas for an M1911
- Thread starter andrewg
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My opinion in owning two 1911's, one Colt and one Springfield, is that they are simply too unreliable with hollow points. Both of the ones I had would feed ball ammo just fine, but would stove pipe quite a bit with HPs. You shouldn't have to spend 1000+ to get a semi-automatic pistol that doesn't jam. That's just crazy.
Funny how my S&W M&P feeds hundreds of hollowpoints with zero problems. Price of the gun with SW rebate: 390 bucks. My Sig Sauer P229 hasn't jammed yet in 2,000 hollow points either. That gun was 750 bucks which is still much less than a "performance tuned" 1911.
Funny how my S&W M&P feeds hundreds of hollowpoints with zero problems. Price of the gun with SW rebate: 390 bucks. My Sig Sauer P229 hasn't jammed yet in 2,000 hollow points either. That gun was 750 bucks which is still much less than a "performance tuned" 1911.
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andrewg, I don't know what your budget is for a 1911, but to not spend a lot of money I would look at the Springfield Armory GI, the Taurus, or a Kimber Custom all in 5 inch, full size models. I have and prefer the Kimber but mine are pre series II models, meaning no firing pin safety mechanism to deal with, you can still find them around, some lightly used or like new, on GunsAmerica or GunBroker, etc. Some of the earlier Springfield pistols had weak extractors but SA stands behind their pistols and would replace them for free, something easily done.
Having a 1911 requires you to know about it's functional design in order to get the most out of it...like how to tune an extractor, etc. Nothing hard mind you but it's nothing like having a Glock that is essentially just a load and shoot pistol.
As far as magazines go, you'll get a lot of different opinions but the most reliable mags are the standard seven rd mags with a dimpled follower - you can order them from Check-Mate, I'd get the ones with the hybrid lip design and the extra power spring in stainless steel...these are the type of mags that come with Colt pistols except without the extra power spring or prancin' pony stamped on the bottom, I think Colt is using Metalform as a supplier and their 7 rd mags are excellent as well.
As far as hollowpoint ammo is concerned, just about any full size 1911 that is within spec should feed hollowpoint ammo with a round nose profile...the good thing is that even with regular FMJ ammo, the .45 is still an effective round, of course you have to do your part and put the rounds where they need to be. Some pistols are just a little more finicky than others about what they'll eat...one pistol will run smooth with a certain bullet and the one that come off the assembly line behind it won't like it at all - it's usually something that can be worked out but not many people want to go to the trouble of chasing it down if another type of cartridge will work.
Look around thehighroad.org for threads by 1911Tuner, he knows the 1911 and has helped many people that had issues with their pistols.
A smooth running 1911 is a joy to have and shoot...yeah, it may (or may not) require a little more attention but it's worth it. A properly set up 1911 is a very reliable pistol.
Good luck and let us know what you find...
Having a 1911 requires you to know about it's functional design in order to get the most out of it...like how to tune an extractor, etc. Nothing hard mind you but it's nothing like having a Glock that is essentially just a load and shoot pistol.
As far as magazines go, you'll get a lot of different opinions but the most reliable mags are the standard seven rd mags with a dimpled follower - you can order them from Check-Mate, I'd get the ones with the hybrid lip design and the extra power spring in stainless steel...these are the type of mags that come with Colt pistols except without the extra power spring or prancin' pony stamped on the bottom, I think Colt is using Metalform as a supplier and their 7 rd mags are excellent as well.
As far as hollowpoint ammo is concerned, just about any full size 1911 that is within spec should feed hollowpoint ammo with a round nose profile...the good thing is that even with regular FMJ ammo, the .45 is still an effective round, of course you have to do your part and put the rounds where they need to be. Some pistols are just a little more finicky than others about what they'll eat...one pistol will run smooth with a certain bullet and the one that come off the assembly line behind it won't like it at all - it's usually something that can be worked out but not many people want to go to the trouble of chasing it down if another type of cartridge will work.
Look around thehighroad.org for threads by 1911Tuner, he knows the 1911 and has helped many people that had issues with their pistols.
A smooth running 1911 is a joy to have and shoot...yeah, it may (or may not) require a little more attention but it's worth it. A properly set up 1911 is a very reliable pistol.
Good luck and let us know what you find...
Please don't buy mags from Check Mate aka "Choke Mate". They have a history of horribly cheap magazines bought for the M9 by the US Military.
Mags are one of the only causes of failure for the M9 in the US Military, and Check Mate is one of our biggest (lowest bidder) suppliers.
I realize that M9 mags are not 1911 mags, but after dealing with hundreds of their mags over the last 9-10 years I would never use them if I had a choice.
As far as hollow points or any personal defense ammo, I stick with what I said; Test it, test it, and test it. Do research from different sites like Guns and Ammo or any reputable site. Find out what has a reputation of working well in what specific guns. Almost all guns have at least one type of ammo they don't like that much.
Mags are one of the only causes of failure for the M9 in the US Military, and Check Mate is one of our biggest (lowest bidder) suppliers.
I realize that M9 mags are not 1911 mags, but after dealing with hundreds of their mags over the last 9-10 years I would never use them if I had a choice.
As far as hollow points or any personal defense ammo, I stick with what I said; Test it, test it, and test it. Do research from different sites like Guns and Ammo or any reputable site. Find out what has a reputation of working well in what specific guns. Almost all guns have at least one type of ammo they don't like that much.
Originally Posted By: SinisterK9
"Self-defense bullets are most often hollow-pointed, meaning that the tip of the bullet is concave and not a solid sharp point. This type of shape assists the bullet "mushrooming" or deforming when it hits a surface, thus causing a larger frontal surface area and subsequently slowing down faster - in the process transferring the kinetic energy to the target. The idea behind this design is to ensure that the bullet will not over penetrate and continue flying on through and past the target".
GOT to do a bit of nit-picking here. The hollow point of a bullet is designed to aid expansion in high liquid content tissue , I. E. FLESH! It has been documented to fill with cloth from heavy winter clothing and penetrate the human body with NO expansion. It will just as easily fill with sheet rock, brick or block shards, wood, or just about any other building material and cease to be a "hollow point". Federal's "Hydro Shock" was revolutionary for puting a post in the center of the hollow point. This was as much to stop "cloging" of cavity as to keep projectile flying straight without tumbling.
I've allways carried hollow points in any defensive handgun, and will continue to, but that design has nothing to do with non-tissue penetration.
"Self-defense bullets are most often hollow-pointed, meaning that the tip of the bullet is concave and not a solid sharp point. This type of shape assists the bullet "mushrooming" or deforming when it hits a surface, thus causing a larger frontal surface area and subsequently slowing down faster - in the process transferring the kinetic energy to the target. The idea behind this design is to ensure that the bullet will not over penetrate and continue flying on through and past the target".
GOT to do a bit of nit-picking here. The hollow point of a bullet is designed to aid expansion in high liquid content tissue , I. E. FLESH! It has been documented to fill with cloth from heavy winter clothing and penetrate the human body with NO expansion. It will just as easily fill with sheet rock, brick or block shards, wood, or just about any other building material and cease to be a "hollow point". Federal's "Hydro Shock" was revolutionary for puting a post in the center of the hollow point. This was as much to stop "cloging" of cavity as to keep projectile flying straight without tumbling.
I've allways carried hollow points in any defensive handgun, and will continue to, but that design has nothing to do with non-tissue penetration.
Agreed on the Check-Mate Beretta mags being bad - especially so for our military to use...but a whole different ball game on the 1911 mags...however, I understand your reluctance to try the same brand name so in that case, I'd recommend the Metalform with an extra power spring..
Originally Posted By: alreadygone
Originally Posted By: SinisterK9
"Self-defense bullets are most often hollow-pointed, meaning that the tip of the bullet is concave and not a solid sharp point. This type of shape assists the bullet "mushrooming" or deforming when it hits a surface, thus causing a larger frontal surface area and subsequently slowing down faster - in the process transferring the kinetic energy to the target. The idea behind this design is to ensure that the bullet will not over penetrate and continue flying on through and past the target".
GOT to do a bit of nit-picking here. The hollow point of a bullet is designed to aid expansion in high liquid content tissue , I. E. FLESH! It has been documented to fill with cloth from heavy winter clothing and penetrate the human body with NO expansion. It will just as easily fill with sheet rock, brick or block shards, wood, or just about any other building material and cease to be a "hollow point". Federal's "Hydro Shock" was revolutionary for puting a post in the center of the hollow point. This was as much to stop "cloging" of cavity as to keep projectile flying straight without tumbling.
I've allways carried hollow points in any defensive handgun, and will continue to, but that design has nothing to do with non-tissue penetration.
Agreed. But assuming you hit your target, you create a substantial likely hood that your round will not travel through the target, followed by several other walls and/or potential neighbors, friends and family.
And as off the wall as it is, something as simple as a gallon of milk, or water, or a bathtub full of water, or a sink full of water, or a water pipe in the wall (full of water of course), or a 2 liter of soda, all could potentially slow down the round much more than it would an FMJ. Plenty of test videos show a tremendous difference between an FMJ and JHP in something as small as a jug of water. While the FMJ passes right through, a JHP tends to do some real damage to the jug. It does said damage to the jug because of the hydraulic effect from the water. You do not necessarily need ballistic gelatin or actual flesh to make a JHP do its duty.
The likely hood of hitting any of the items I mentioned may be remote. But they are common household goods, and even if you only increase your chances of not causing collateral damage by .01%, that's still an increase.
Originally Posted By: SinisterK9
"Self-defense bullets are most often hollow-pointed, meaning that the tip of the bullet is concave and not a solid sharp point. This type of shape assists the bullet "mushrooming" or deforming when it hits a surface, thus causing a larger frontal surface area and subsequently slowing down faster - in the process transferring the kinetic energy to the target. The idea behind this design is to ensure that the bullet will not over penetrate and continue flying on through and past the target".
GOT to do a bit of nit-picking here. The hollow point of a bullet is designed to aid expansion in high liquid content tissue , I. E. FLESH! It has been documented to fill with cloth from heavy winter clothing and penetrate the human body with NO expansion. It will just as easily fill with sheet rock, brick or block shards, wood, or just about any other building material and cease to be a "hollow point". Federal's "Hydro Shock" was revolutionary for puting a post in the center of the hollow point. This was as much to stop "cloging" of cavity as to keep projectile flying straight without tumbling.
I've allways carried hollow points in any defensive handgun, and will continue to, but that design has nothing to do with non-tissue penetration.
Agreed. But assuming you hit your target, you create a substantial likely hood that your round will not travel through the target, followed by several other walls and/or potential neighbors, friends and family.
And as off the wall as it is, something as simple as a gallon of milk, or water, or a bathtub full of water, or a sink full of water, or a water pipe in the wall (full of water of course), or a 2 liter of soda, all could potentially slow down the round much more than it would an FMJ. Plenty of test videos show a tremendous difference between an FMJ and JHP in something as small as a jug of water. While the FMJ passes right through, a JHP tends to do some real damage to the jug. It does said damage to the jug because of the hydraulic effect from the water. You do not necessarily need ballistic gelatin or actual flesh to make a JHP do its duty.
The likely hood of hitting any of the items I mentioned may be remote. But they are common household goods, and even if you only increase your chances of not causing collateral damage by .01%, that's still an increase.
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
andrewg, I don't know what your budget is for a 1911, but to not spend a lot of money I would look at the Springfield Armory GI
I am really looking hard at one of these. Not that I need another 1911
...I will need to get rid of something if I get one.
andrewg, I don't know what your budget is for a 1911, but to not spend a lot of money I would look at the Springfield Armory GI
I am really looking hard at one of these. Not that I need another 1911
...I will need to get rid of something if I get one.
+1 on the Springfield. Mine is a barebones model that I later made a few upgrades to, but I warn that it is temperamental to high cap mags and hollowpoints. I have a few +2 capacity mags that aren't too obtrusive. I have a general apathy for ultra high cap magazines in general, my theory is that if you need more than 10 shots then you're either a bad shot or you're in way over your head to begin with!
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Than that makes the gun useless for self-defense. You don't want to use FMJ/ball ammo for self defense for obvious reasons. Me, personally, have never had any issues specific to using hollow points in my 1911's - and I own 6. Truth is, they will jam up using ball ammo too. I love the 1911, but due to the somewhat unreliabiilty I carry a .40 or a .357.
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Than that makes the gun useless for self-defense. You don't want to use FMJ/ball ammo for self defense for obvious reasons. Me, personally, have never had any issues specific to using hollow points in my 1911's - and I own 6. Truth is, they will jam up using ball ammo too. I love the 1911, but due to the somewhat unreliabiilty I carry a .40 or a .357.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Than that makes the gun useless for self-defense. You don't want to use FMJ/ball ammo for self defense for obvious reasons. Me, personally, have never had any issues specific to using hollow points in my 1911's - and I own 6. Truth is, they will jam up using ball ammo too. I love the 1911, but due to the somewhat unreliabiilty I carry a .40 or a .357.
In all fairness the 1911 is probably the single greatest design in auto handgun history. If you use it like it was intended, with the ammunition that it was designed with, then you should never have it jam on you. If you want a more accurate, less temperamental weapon you should look towards other makes and calibers. If you want a powerful round intended for close range personal defense that you can drop in the sand and still fire, then the 1911 is for you.
The .45 can be used with hollowpoints if you're handy with a sanding stone and know what to file down. It can be made more accurate if you want to sacrifice the loose tolerances that it was purposely given to withstand adverse conditions. I still don't buy the whole "you shouldn't use anything but hollowpoints in a self defense weapon". Let's just say I've had pretty good luck with FMJ and leave it at that.
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Than that makes the gun useless for self-defense. You don't want to use FMJ/ball ammo for self defense for obvious reasons. Me, personally, have never had any issues specific to using hollow points in my 1911's - and I own 6. Truth is, they will jam up using ball ammo too. I love the 1911, but due to the somewhat unreliabiilty I carry a .40 or a .357.
In all fairness the 1911 is probably the single greatest design in auto handgun history. If you use it like it was intended, with the ammunition that it was designed with, then you should never have it jam on you. If you want a more accurate, less temperamental weapon you should look towards other makes and calibers. If you want a powerful round intended for close range personal defense that you can drop in the sand and still fire, then the 1911 is for you.
The .45 can be used with hollowpoints if you're handy with a sanding stone and know what to file down. It can be made more accurate if you want to sacrifice the loose tolerances that it was purposely given to withstand adverse conditions. I still don't buy the whole "you shouldn't use anything but hollowpoints in a self defense weapon". Let's just say I've had pretty good luck with FMJ and leave it at that.
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Has not been my experience. I have 4 1911's that will feed semi-wad cutters with little tuning.
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Has not been my experience. I have 4 1911's that will feed semi-wad cutters with little tuning.
MOST .45's will feed MOST H.P.'s. The only way to know for sure is to run a few boxes of the ones you like best through your personal firearm and see if there are any malfunctions.
While I'm not a FMJ proponent, most .356-.357 bullets are lucky to reach an oal diameter of .45 after full expansion.
If your .45 won't reliably feed and functon with at least one of the more popular HP rounds, see my first post on this thread to contact my nephew Joe and Mr. Marvel.
Bob
While I'm not a FMJ proponent, most .356-.357 bullets are lucky to reach an oal diameter of .45 after full expansion.
If your .45 won't reliably feed and functon with at least one of the more popular HP rounds, see my first post on this thread to contact my nephew Joe and Mr. Marvel.
Bob
Originally Posted By: kingrob
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Than that makes the gun useless for self-defense. You don't want to use FMJ/ball ammo for self defense for obvious reasons. Me, personally, have never had any issues specific to using hollow points in my 1911's - and I own 6. Truth is, they will jam up using ball ammo too. I love the 1911, but due to the somewhat unreliabiilty I carry a .40 or a .357.
In all fairness the 1911 is probably the single greatest design in auto handgun history. If you use it like it was intended, with the ammunition that it was designed with, then you should never have it jam on you. If you want a more accurate, less temperamental weapon you should look towards other makes and calibers. If you want a powerful round intended for close range personal defense that you can drop in the sand and still fire, then the 1911 is for you.
The .45 can be used with hollowpoints if you're handy with a sanding stone and know what to file down. It can be made more accurate if you want to sacrifice the loose tolerances that it was purposely given to withstand adverse conditions. I still don't buy the whole "you shouldn't use anything but hollowpoints in a self defense weapon". Let's just say I've had pretty good luck with FMJ and leave it at that.
I hear what you're saying and I agree. My .45's tend to work best with Remington Golden Saber's - which are hollow-points. What I meant by using hollowpoints is not so much the better stopping power aspect but the SAFETY of others around. You should NOT use FMJ/ball ammo as a self defense round because it will go thru your target and possibly hit an innocent bystander. Or imagine shooting an intruder in your bedroom and the bullet rips thru and kills your kid in the next room....hollow points minimize this by dumping their energy in the intended target. FMJ ammo is best left for target practice, in my opinion.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: kingrob
but I warn that it is temperamental and hollowpoints.
Unless you know what you are doing you want to stay away from hollowpoints on the 1911 A1 colts and clones.
Than that makes the gun useless for self-defense. You don't want to use FMJ/ball ammo for self defense for obvious reasons. Me, personally, have never had any issues specific to using hollow points in my 1911's - and I own 6. Truth is, they will jam up using ball ammo too. I love the 1911, but due to the somewhat unreliabiilty I carry a .40 or a .357.
In all fairness the 1911 is probably the single greatest design in auto handgun history. If you use it like it was intended, with the ammunition that it was designed with, then you should never have it jam on you. If you want a more accurate, less temperamental weapon you should look towards other makes and calibers. If you want a powerful round intended for close range personal defense that you can drop in the sand and still fire, then the 1911 is for you.
The .45 can be used with hollowpoints if you're handy with a sanding stone and know what to file down. It can be made more accurate if you want to sacrifice the loose tolerances that it was purposely given to withstand adverse conditions. I still don't buy the whole "you shouldn't use anything but hollowpoints in a self defense weapon". Let's just say I've had pretty good luck with FMJ and leave it at that.
I hear what you're saying and I agree. My .45's tend to work best with Remington Golden Saber's - which are hollow-points. What I meant by using hollowpoints is not so much the better stopping power aspect but the SAFETY of others around. You should NOT use FMJ/ball ammo as a self defense round because it will go thru your target and possibly hit an innocent bystander. Or imagine shooting an intruder in your bedroom and the bullet rips thru and kills your kid in the next room....hollow points minimize this by dumping their energy in the intended target. FMJ ammo is best left for target practice, in my opinion.
I've been doing research on this topic for some time now and will be venturing to the local gun show this weekend to make my first 1911 purchase. My considerations were reliability, price, and most importantly a solid platform for customization in the future. Springfield's GI seems most appealing right now, though I have also considered a Mil-Spec if I can find one. I prefer the lowered/flared port on the Mil-Spec, but the GI's vertical cocking serrations look better to me. I can always have the GI's port opened up later, or just buy a new slide. I plan to replace the Mainspring housing with a non-locking variety shortly after purchase and work from there.
Ideas? Good/Bad?
Ideas? Good/Bad?
Quote:
the lowered/flared port on the Mil-Spec
Makes it worth while to get the Mil-spec.
the lowered/flared port on the Mil-Spec
Makes it worth while to get the Mil-spec.
I understand they're hard to come by, but if one is available for a decent price that's probably what I'll get.
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