What I"m wondering is how would you adapt a remote filter mount such as those offered from Amsoil.
cartridge filter? why?
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Originally Posted By: Kestas
...I'd buy into the 'reducing waste' idea if the filters were cheaper than spin-on filters. As Eddie asked, why are they more expensive if they are (or should be) easier to manufacture?
Probably because the manufacturers don't make nearly as many cartridge filters as they do spin-on's. Or possibly because most (all?) catridge filters are made in Europe or Asia. Importing costs? That's my guess anyway.
...I'd buy into the 'reducing waste' idea if the filters were cheaper than spin-on filters. As Eddie asked, why are they more expensive if they are (or should be) easier to manufacture?
Probably because the manufacturers don't make nearly as many cartridge filters as they do spin-on's. Or possibly because most (all?) catridge filters are made in Europe or Asia. Importing costs? That's my guess anyway.
Kestas
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Even for the Wix filters I buy, the cartridge filters are on average more expensive than spin-ons. I think the volume is there.
The answer appears to be greed. Other "green" products are more expensive than their popular counterparts, even though they're cheaper to produce, e.g., "raw" sugar vs. refined sugar... brown coffee filters vs. bleached filters.
The answer appears to be greed. Other "green" products are more expensive than their popular counterparts, even though they're cheaper to produce, e.g., "raw" sugar vs. refined sugar... brown coffee filters vs. bleached filters.
Kestas,
There is a new term for this. It is called Eco-Snobbery.
There is a new term for this. It is called Eco-Snobbery.
Originally Posted By: milwaukee
None of the cartridge filters for the toyota are made in Europe. They are all made in asia.
Not too many of them are USA made. The ACD/Hengst is made in the USA for the Ecotecs, that's about it. Here's some filter pics and a pic of the housing. It's a little tight on the Ecotec. Notice the notch cut into the intake runner for clearance:
Joel
None of the cartridge filters for the toyota are made in Europe. They are all made in asia.
Not too many of them are USA made. The ACD/Hengst is made in the USA for the Ecotecs, that's about it. Here's some filter pics and a pic of the housing. It's a little tight on the Ecotec. Notice the notch cut into the intake runner for clearance:
Joel
Originally Posted By: milwaukee
I should have said none of the cartridge filters for MY CAR are made in the USA.
Originally Posted By: milwaukee
The design on the toyota is moronic. Draining an oil filter before removal? That is just stupid.
If it was serviceable from the top it would be 10x's better.
I really hate it. It takes extra time with no benefits IMO.
Filter selection really sucks also.
I think the real issue here is Toyota's choice of where to put the filter, not anything specific to cartridge filters themselves. Like several have said already in this thread, GM did it right with the Ecotec's filter but Toyota has chosen to hide theirs somewhere unreachable. But I've heard many Toyotas with conventional filters that were extremely difficult to reach too, so like they say, once a Toyota, always a Toyota.
I should have said none of the cartridge filters for MY CAR are made in the USA.
Originally Posted By: milwaukee
The design on the toyota is moronic. Draining an oil filter before removal? That is just stupid.
If it was serviceable from the top it would be 10x's better.
I really hate it. It takes extra time with no benefits IMO.
Filter selection really sucks also.
I think the real issue here is Toyota's choice of where to put the filter, not anything specific to cartridge filters themselves. Like several have said already in this thread, GM did it right with the Ecotec's filter but Toyota has chosen to hide theirs somewhere unreachable. But I've heard many Toyotas with conventional filters that were extremely difficult to reach too, so like they say, once a Toyota, always a Toyota.
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But I've heard many Toyotas with conventional filters that were extremely difficult to reach too, so like they say, once a Toyota, always a Toyota.
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Not Corollas with 1ZZ-FE. Simplest and quickest oil changes I have ever done. Don't even have to jack up the car.
But I've heard many Toyotas with conventional filters that were extremely difficult to reach too, so like they say, once a Toyota, always a Toyota.
[/quote]
Not Corollas with 1ZZ-FE. Simplest and quickest oil changes I have ever done. Don't even have to jack up the car.
2009 Corollas use a cartridge filter. It isn't hard to reach the device that holds the filter, but it sure makes a mess when the filter is replaced.
with a cartridge there is no flimsy anti-drainback diaphragm or bypass springs. both are engine internal.
Originally Posted By: css9450
I think the real issue here is Toyota's choice of where to put the filter, not anything specific to cartridge filters themselves. Like several have said already in this thread, GM did it right with the Ecotec's filter but Toyota has chosen to hide theirs somewhere unreachable. But I've heard many Toyotas with conventional filters that were extremely difficult to reach too, so like they say, once a Toyota, always a Toyota.
A pity. Years ago Toyota was among the best in designing their cars for easy maintenance.
I think the real issue here is Toyota's choice of where to put the filter, not anything specific to cartridge filters themselves. Like several have said already in this thread, GM did it right with the Ecotec's filter but Toyota has chosen to hide theirs somewhere unreachable. But I've heard many Toyotas with conventional filters that were extremely difficult to reach too, so like they say, once a Toyota, always a Toyota.
A pity. Years ago Toyota was among the best in designing their cars for easy maintenance.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
2009 Corollas use a cartridge filter. It isn't hard to reach the device that holds the filter, but it sure makes a mess when the filter is replaced.
There are drain holes every 180* on the cartridge cap. I drained out using these and it was pretty clean. Even replacing the o-ring was pretty clean process as I only ised 1 newspaper sheet to keep my bench clean.
Now to find a cheaper supplier of cartridges than the dealership ($9) yikes!! Hopefully NAPA is better...
2009 Corollas use a cartridge filter. It isn't hard to reach the device that holds the filter, but it sure makes a mess when the filter is replaced.
There are drain holes every 180* on the cartridge cap. I drained out using these and it was pretty clean. Even replacing the o-ring was pretty clean process as I only ised 1 newspaper sheet to keep my bench clean.
Now to find a cheaper supplier of cartridges than the dealership ($9) yikes!! Hopefully NAPA is better...
As I understand it, the whole drive to switch back to cartridge oil filters from the spin-on types is rooted in German, then European Community (EC), requirements for easier recyclability of cars and their components. Germany, for example, began discussing requirements for labeling plastics in cars as to type, etc., for recycling back in the '80s.
Though there has been no mandate in the EC to my knowledge about requiring cartridge filters, many of the motor vehicles there made the switch years ago. Certain Mercedes-Benz models went to cartridges as far back as 1990. However, many imports from Asia and North America sold in relatively limited numbers in the EC would still be likely to use spin-on filters in that market, I would presume.
The logic seems to be this: a steel spin-on filter would require disassembly to recycle the steel and dispose of the used media. With the cartridge design, the used element can simply be incinerated.
The vehicles in widespread use in North America that use cartridge filters are (1) of European, especially German, design; (2) are vehicles sharing a platform with Euro variants, such as various Saturn models that are also sold as Opels and Vauxhalls; (3) are intended to be sold in Europe or have engines that appear in vehicles sold there. Examples of each class: (1. Euro design) Mercedes-Benz, VW/Audi, BMW, MINI, Volvo; (2. Shared platforms) Saturn; (3. Sold in Europe or sharing engines with vehicles that are) some Cadillac, some Mazda.
Since 2003 the Ford/Navistar Power Stroke 6.0 and 6.4-liter diesel engines used in heavy-duty Ford F-series trucks have also used a cartridge design. It would probably fall into the third category, as the F-series turns up in some unlikely places.
Though there has been no mandate in the EC to my knowledge about requiring cartridge filters, many of the motor vehicles there made the switch years ago. Certain Mercedes-Benz models went to cartridges as far back as 1990. However, many imports from Asia and North America sold in relatively limited numbers in the EC would still be likely to use spin-on filters in that market, I would presume.
The logic seems to be this: a steel spin-on filter would require disassembly to recycle the steel and dispose of the used media. With the cartridge design, the used element can simply be incinerated.
The vehicles in widespread use in North America that use cartridge filters are (1) of European, especially German, design; (2) are vehicles sharing a platform with Euro variants, such as various Saturn models that are also sold as Opels and Vauxhalls; (3) are intended to be sold in Europe or have engines that appear in vehicles sold there. Examples of each class: (1. Euro design) Mercedes-Benz, VW/Audi, BMW, MINI, Volvo; (2. Shared platforms) Saturn; (3. Sold in Europe or sharing engines with vehicles that are) some Cadillac, some Mazda.
Since 2003 the Ford/Navistar Power Stroke 6.0 and 6.4-liter diesel engines used in heavy-duty Ford F-series trucks have also used a cartridge design. It would probably fall into the third category, as the F-series turns up in some unlikely places.
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Oh, sure, it's for future environmental reasons. The Ecore is 100% designed to be in place for that evolution for the spin-on that will be in use for some time to come.
I'd say that this is one evolution in the spin-on internals that Fram was ahead of the curve ... as a byproduct of their cheapness.
I'd say that this is one evolution in the spin-on internals that Fram was ahead of the curve ... as a byproduct of their cheapness.
Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Originally Posted By: css9450
I think the real issue here is Toyota's choice of where to put the filter, not anything specific to cartridge filters themselves. Like several have said already in this thread, GM did it right with the Ecotec's filter but Toyota has chosen to hide theirs somewhere unreachable. But I've heard many Toyotas with conventional filters that were extremely difficult to reach too, so like they say, once a Toyota, always a Toyota.
A pity. Years ago Toyota was among the best in designing their cars for easy maintenance.
I just did change on 09 Corolla....Absolutely no problems or mess...It is a bit different not using a spin on, but, the filter housing is easy access, put in the 0 20 Mobil1 all is well...
Originally Posted By: css9450
I think the real issue here is Toyota's choice of where to put the filter, not anything specific to cartridge filters themselves. Like several have said already in this thread, GM did it right with the Ecotec's filter but Toyota has chosen to hide theirs somewhere unreachable. But I've heard many Toyotas with conventional filters that were extremely difficult to reach too, so like they say, once a Toyota, always a Toyota.
A pity. Years ago Toyota was among the best in designing their cars for easy maintenance.
I just did change on 09 Corolla....Absolutely no problems or mess...It is a bit different not using a spin on, but, the filter housing is easy access, put in the 0 20 Mobil1 all is well...
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