UOA history 06 VW Jetta 1.9 TDI PD w/DSG

[wjdell]

UOA's start @ 10 K
1 Motul Specific -- oil & filter
2 Motul Specific -- oil
3 Amsoil AFL ------ oil & filter
4 VW LL III -------- oil - DRF count this OCI
5 VW LL III -------- oil & filter - oil pan heated < 70F
6 VW LL III -------- oil & filter - oil pan heated < 70F

Ave mpg ---- 42.5 -- 43.0 --- 43.0 --- 43.0 ---- 43.2 --- 43.1
Hours / oil --- 132 --- 131 ---- 100 --– 103 ---- 150 ----- 184
Miles / oil -- 5009 -- 5000 -- 4000 -- 4000 --- 6021 --- 7001

Fe - 24 - 24 - 22 – 22 -- 15 - 17
Cr --- 1 –- 1 -– 0 --- 0 ---- 0 -- 0
Ni --- 1 –- 1 –- 0 --- 0 ---- 0 -- 0
Al --- 4 -– 4 –- 3 --- 2 ---- 4 -- 4
Cu -- 3 -– 3 -– 2 --- 3 ---- 4 -- 4
Pb -- 2 -– 2 -– 2 --- 2 ---- 3 -- 6
Sn – 0 –- 0 –- 1 --- 0 ---- 1 -- 1
Si --- 4 –- 6 -– 5 --- 6 ---- 3 -- 4
Na - 15 – 9 -– 7 --- 8 ---- 3 -- 2
K ---- 1 -– 2 -– 1 --- 2 ---- 1 -- 3

Fuel Vol --- < .5% - Soot Vol --- Vis 100C --- 13.4 –- 13.2 --- 13.1 –- 11.5 --- 11.5
TBN ----------- N/A --- N/A ---- N/A --- 4.88 --- N/A

All these oils were driven under the same conditions and fuel was purchased in 250 gallon batches. This motor is wearing very well for a notorious PD. Now its time to show that a PD motor can use a CJ4 505.01 oil made in the USA and cut cost by 50%. It came down to three oils. I felt the best synthetic CJ4 5w40 oils were, Amsoil DEO, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP, and Schaeffer S9000. Each oil had specific advantages. S9000 was the least expensive and Schaeffer supports the use of this oil in a VW PD motor, Amsoil and Mobil would not. 505.01 is posted clearly on the container, in their product brochure and if you write them they will tell you use with confidence. So on 8/20/08 I changed my oil to S9000. It took a 100 miles but the engine got real quiet. As far as MPG I expect to lose less than 1 mpg going from a 11.5 cSt to 14.5. I had my first sign of soot this OCI of .1% @ 7k interval. A DG by-pass filter may be in my future. I was going to try Total Ineo 504/507 but the price was just crazy @ 11.25 per litre shipped. I have no worries at all about my engine but the DMF "dual mass flywheel" does worry me. I will post the VOA of this batch of S9000 in a week or so. There are 3 maybe 4 PD engines joining me their next OC. One PD motor is already on their 2nd OCI of S90000. The first UOA was excellent, posted here at bitog, and the 2nd UOA coming soon. Its unfortunate it may not be CJ4 as the additive counts reflect CI4+. The seller told them it was CJ4 but the UOA does not reflect that and they had already tossed the container. I will run a minimum of 3 OCI's. If the oils performance is good when compared to similar engines using 505.01 oils then I have found my 1 oil solution for all my diesels.

 

[cosynthetics]

Why the concern with the DMF?

 

[wjdell]

In German the term is Stock Granate - or stick grenade. the early DMF have been known to fragment and take out the housing or housing and trans and sometimes wiping the engine out also. VW is not doing anything to help us they are just fixing the ones who manage to blow them in 60k. It will cost me 800 + my labor to replace it with the new part. Maybe someone will get hurt then NTSB will step in.

 

[TeeDub]

The CJ-4 additive chemistry is superior to VW 505.01/507.00 and the 5w-40/HDEO's are about 20% thicker in terms of HT/HS viscosity. So its no surprise to me that they'd work better in the PD diesels....

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: TeeDub
The CJ-4 additive chemistry is superior to VW 505.01/507.00 and the 5w-40/HDEO's are about 20% thicker in terms of HT/HS viscosity. So its no surprise to me that they'd work better in the PD diesels....

I think you are right, but it will take more testing like wjdell is performing before we know for sure.

 

[Tim]

Originally Posted By: TeeDub
The CJ-4 additive chemistry is superior to VW 505.01/507.00 and the 5w-40/HDEO's are about 20% thicker in terms of HT/HS viscosity. So its no surprise to me that they'd work better in the PD diesels....


Superior if you are running a PD motor...but how about if you have an '09 with a DPF and you really do need 507?

 

[wjdell]

We dont know yet just how sensitive a VW DPF is - I have done no research at this time although I have collected some data. I can tell you that almost all CJ4 is around =< 1 in ash. Therefore I would assume that is a safe level for many of the DPF's. Mobil - Shell - Amsoil - Schaeffer and any other CJ4 oils were produced for the new engines with DPF's and high piston ring placement.

If I had a 09 I would stay with 507 till I was absolutely positive I had a good engine, approaching the end of the warranty period before I considered trying a CJ4 oil. In that time I would try to figure out why the MB - BMW - and many of the truck DPF's can use 1 in ash and VW seems to spec .8 in 505.01, which in its second generation is DPF safe, and the 507 which is .6 ash.

 

[milehighassassin]

Interesting as usual. Do you think your UOA's are getting better because of the choice to heat the oil/pan?

 

[wjdell]

There is no doubt that I was on a trend of 5 ppm Fe, even after switching to 507.00 oil. Then after the pan heater went into service it was cut in half. Now I expect the same thing to occur again with the by-pass filter and higher viscosity oil.

If you look carefully yo will see the wear trend of bearing materials steadily went up. I am sure that the thinner 507 oil was not able to protect bearing as well as 505.01. After looking at the current oil at 37 hours I expect a drop in all but Cu.