Won't crank when engine hot

[BearZDefect]

1997 Infiniti i30, auto, 103k miles.

A week ago this problem started. After the engine bay has soaked in heat for a while it will not crank after shutdown. Leave it to cool down enough and it cranks as usual and starts right up.

Battery is good, only a few months old. When this problem occurs everything is normal with the key in the 'on' position (sounds and lights) but nothing more happens when turned to the crank position. No sounds, no dimming of lights, etc.

That made me think of an intermittent switch or relay failure. I suspected this car had an intermittent neutral switch (range sensor) problem so my first step was to replace that with a new Nissan OEM part. Unfortunately the problem remains as it was, and I can't continue spending time and money without a diagnosis.

Is my next step a check for voltage at the starter when this failure occurs?

No malfunction codes have appeared.

Any help is appreciated. TIA!

 

[Chris142]

99.9% of the time this is a starter or Solinoid problem.

 

[The Critic]

Yup, this happened to me on my Saturn at around 99k. Turns out the starter was failing. I replaced the starter and it has yet to happen again in 18k miles.

 

[BearZDefect]

Thanks, Chris and Critic.

Can the Solenoid be tested and replaced alone?

I know there are rebuilt starters where the issues are taken care of, but who knows what you get overall in a rebuild? I have seen some trashy rebuilt parts from the likes of AZ.

 

[The Critic]

Yes, but the solenoid costs $58 from RockAuto. For $120, you can get a rebuilt starter with a lifetime warranty from AutoZone. Sure, it's a risk to buy a rebuilt starter, but nothing's worse than spending $60 for a solenoid and having the entire starter fail on you a year later. Then you'd have to spend money on a rebuilt starter anyway. I guess if the car was newer, I'd say replace the solenoid only, but an 11 year old starter is probably near the end of its life.

 

[AcuraTech]

Consider an Infiniti re-man starter. More expensive? Yes. Better quality? Probably.

Time is money, digging starters out of luxury cars is often a PITA job. Doing it twice is something that will ruin your day. (I could be wrong, it may not be hard to get out, but it's better if you don't have to)

 

[BearZDefect]

AcuraTech, I agree about not doing the job twice. That is a reason why the "lifetime warranty" parts from parts stored aren't as good as they sound.

The i30 isn't a real luxury car, it is simply a nice Maxima.

Critic, I will consider all options, including Nissan re-mans.

Many 11 year old Nissan parts are at the end of their life.

On the other hand, the starter in my 15 year Civic with 240k miles cranks tirelessly as always. Comparing many aspects of these two vehicles as I've worked on them in recent years has shown how much better Honda quality was than Nissan, at least back then. Both in terms of part failures and material quality.

 

[98LS-WON]

You can also buy a heat sheild for the new starter so this doesn't happen again.

 

[BearZDefect]

Heat shield? The starter is bolted to the engine, won't it take up most heat by conducting through the large contact area?

 

[mechtech2]

The heat shield is for insulating the starter from an exhaust component, if necessary.
But heat causes resistance to go up [except for carbon], so cables or starter are suspects here.

 

[Chris142]

Does it click at all when it acts up? If it does not click it's a solonoid problem. If it clicks then it's a starter motor problem.

Either way I would replace both as they tend to wear out together. You may replace the Solonoid today then the starter motor will fail next week.

 

[Cutehumor]

buy a new starter. I've been burned twice by rebuilt starters from chain stores on two different vehicles. new OEM starters cured everything.

 

[BearZDefect]

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful replies and advice!

Chris142, it does not click or make any additional sound, nor does the electric load appear to increase when the key is turned from on to start.

Cutehumor, dealer carries rebuilt starters too, not new. Perhaps this vehicle is too old to have new starters stocked anymore?

mechtech2, the starter is on the transmission side of the engine while the two exhaust headers go down the front and rear. That doesn't seem like a position vulnerable to radiant heat from the exhaust, does it?

I still need to put a test light on it to make sure I don't have a relay failing upstream. I can't say if a relay would fail only when hot, however. Am I wasting time trying to rule this out?

 

[onion]

I don't know about a Saturn- never worked on one. But on most American vehicles, and most heavy equipment, it's easy to take the solenoid apart and look it over. If the solenoid is the problem, the contacts and/or washer will be obviously burned.

So on my own vehicles, I always take the solenoid apart, then decide whether I need a starter or just a solenoid.

But on a customer's vehicle, I just replace the starter. It's a guaranteed fix... and it ain't MY money.

 

[Tosh]

Lightly tap the solenoid with a hammer and see if it starts.

 

[ThirdeYe]

I think it could be a relay issue still. If it's anything like a Honda/Acura that I'm familiar with, it will have a fuel pump/main relay that can get bad solders over time, causing your car not to start when it's warm. Give it time to cool down, and it starts. Generally, you can tell if it's the main relay by listening for the fuel pump and see if it primes when you turn the ignition to ON, or the car will simply die right after it starts. Could be the starter too, but I wouldn't completely rule out the relay. At least have it checked, if it has a main fuel relay. I don't know if it's just a Honda thing or not.

 

[BearZDefect]

Tosh, I can't reach the #$% starter/solenoid without taking off the the entire plastic part of the intake, so I couldn't try the tapping trick while it was acting up. I have the starter out now for examination.

ThirdeYe, I am familiar with the Honda main relay issue. That failure prevents the fuel pump from running. In my case the fuel pump runs fine, but the starter won't crank. One possibility is it could be the relay that activates the solenoid.

I hope to have some results soon. Thanks for the assistance.

 

[TexasHonda]

I am now looking at replacing an aftermarket starter from ORielly's (~1 yr old) on my Acura 2.5TL. Starter position is under the intake manifold and required 6-7 hrs last time. I would have rebuilt this starter myself but car was out of town and had to be repaired immediately.

I would suggest taking your starter to an automotive electrical shop for rebuilding or rebuilding yourself (replace solenoid and check parts for excessive wear which is all rebuild shops likely do).

You can repair the solenoid on some Japanese cars w/ new copper contacts, if your solenoid can be disassembled. Check sherco auto supply for new contacts.

good luck

 

[BearZDefect]

TexasHonda, thanks for the advice, I'm with you there.

onion, the solenoid on this starter looks like it cannot be opened without special equipment, so I had to give up on inspecting and repairing it myself.

I took off the starter and opened the motor section for inspection. The brushes looked worn, the shortest looked barely 1mm from its wire touching the guide such as to prevent proper contact with the commutator.

I came to the conclusion that with a questionable soleniod, and brushes almost worn, I'm looking at about $100 in parts. So, TexasHonda, I hope my reman from O'Reilly lasts longer than yours! It cost me just over $150 with taxes, so you can see my $ logic.

Taking the starter out was harder than putting it back in, due to difficulty disconnecting some electrical connectors. But now it's all back together, all contacts checked, cranking nice and fast. I still have to give it the full heat soak test, but I hope the problem is taken care of.

Thanks to all for the help!