Why are redline, motul -- group V oils great

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Hello, new guy here,But I have read alot on here for a long time.

I am just wondering what makes group V oils so great?

Lots of people say they are great. Why?

I have searched, but havent found a answer.

I see redline is very high in moly. why would that be good? also i see it has a lot of Calceium(sorry about spelling)
why would that be good also?


thanks guys for the help
 
Some oils are group V based. And seem to offer good performance in many areas. Cleanliness seems to be a strong point for Esters. Redline comes to mind.

Other oils are Group IV based, and seem to offer very strong TBN retention as well. Amsoil and some Mobil grades come to mind here......

Some oils are a group IV base with a solid dose of ester(s) (some Mobil 1 grades) which seem to offer a good mix of both things: Good cleanliness with a strong TBN like M1 TDT, 0w40....etc.

How they will perform in YOUR situation though..... You won't really know unless you test. One thing I've learned on here: The best oil for MY car may not be the best oil for YOUR car. And choosing an oil based on it's base-stock is not a wise-move.


Some observations (and hijacks from other posters):

-Redline doesn't handle fuel dilution well.

-Mobil 1 0w40 sheers like a bugger, but still performs very well.

-Redline, Mobil 1, Amsoil, Rotella....etc. seem to keep engines very clean. I can vouch for M1 and Amsoil first-hand on this one. No experience with the other two.

-RLI bioester oils seem to handle fuel dilution phenomenally well based on a saga that is documented in the UOA section.




Keep in mind: My first-hand experience is limited (primarily) to Mobil 1 and Amsoil. Not to say I don't have experience with other brands (I do; Castrol and Valvoline primarily) but that these two brands are the ones I've used the most and recommend based on my experience with them.
 
Doing alot of searching on Google/BITOG,etc,I`ve read Mobil 1 15W50 silver cap is grp IV/V (one of the only M1`s that are?????),and Royal Purple is grp IV/V as well (Synerlec grp V additive?).

This is just info I`ve read using the search feature here and on other sites.

Do oils also have to have a grp I as a carrier?
 
If you need or use the capabilities of the oils, then they are great. If you do not need or use the capabilties then you are spending too much for the oil.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Doing alot of searching on Google/BITOG,etc,I`ve read Mobil 1 15W50 silver cap is grp IV/V (one of the only M1`s that are?????),and Royal Purple is grp IV/V as well (Synerlec grp V additive?).

This is just info I`ve read using the search feature here and on other sites.

Do oils also have to have a grp I as a carrier?


Doug Hillary (who seems to have some solid connections with Mobil) recently posted that any of the M1 grades that say Supersyn on the label are Group IV based.......
 
Hi,
this from OVERK1ll's Post;
".............that any of the M1 grades that say Supersyn on the label are Group IV based......."

Some also have an ester content - quickly judged primarily by the price!

In answer to the Topic of this Thread, the latest range of Group 3 (semi synthetic) lubricants perform at least as well as many "full synthetics" - regardless of the Brand or Group "mix". This is why so many appear on the latest Euro Manufacturer Approvals
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Is Amsoil 0w20 Group5?


All Amsoil engine oils are Group IV with the exception of the XL line which is group III. That's not to say that some "other than I, II, III, IV" ingredient isn't in there too. Group V is a rather nebulous assignment.
 
Does Group V always mean esters, or is it a a catch-all for synthetics that aren't group III or IV?

I remember hearing Pennzoil Platnium referred to as a "non ester group V" on another forum.
 
Hi,
JonnyHotcakes - Group 5 is really a "catch all" for base stocks that do not fit into previous Groups 1,2,3,4

Group 5 embraces "generally" the very wide range of "esters"

Group 6 is primarily for new and emerging base stocks such as PIOs. These are similar to PAOs (synthetic linear chains of alphaolefins) but the new Group facilitates Licencing new formulations that contain various mixes of PIOs and PAOs
 
Quote:
I remember hearing Pennzoil Platnium referred to as a "non ester group V" on another forum.

Used to be, but no longer. Now GrpIII, but very high quality.
 
This is a great first question. May I be the first to say...

welcome2.gif


And to answer your question, I don't know.
 
Thanks for the input so far guys!

My other question, which has been really buggin me is what is Moly, and why would alot of it be good??

And to, what would Calcium be used for? I see redline has lots of it!!


Thanks guys
 
Originally Posted By: thinktohard
Thanks for the input so far guys!

My other question, which has been really buggin me is what is Moly, and why would alot of it be good??

And to, what would Calcium be used for? I see redline has lots of it!!


Thanks guys


Calcium is often used as a detergent/dispersant/anti-wear/anti-scuff additive.
In this paper, Molakule is mainly referring to gear oils, but worth a read http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729344#Post729344

As are all the papers in this forum http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=53&page=1
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
If you need or use the capabilities of the oils, then they are great. If you do not need or use the capabilties then you are spending too much for the oil.


I agree with Steve. If your going to tow/haul, race, do alot of WOT, over extend the OCI's or have a turbo/superchanger that is used quite hard(track days), then better oils will do a better job of protecting you engine. If your like me and just drive a vehicle everyday to & from work, shopping or shcool events or family vacations then most any oils with proper OCI's will protect well.
Those using these great oils(group V) and using their vehicles like me are probably wasting their money. These group V oil are built for the tougher situations.
 
Quote:
Ester use remains low in car engine oils due to their high price and the relatively mild conditions in the engines, so they are mainly used as additives. That market trends toward the lowest cost base oils needed to satisfy specifications and claims, so Group IIIs are the current poster child.

The technology exists to make a real "super" oil based entirely on certain advanced polyol esters, but the PCMO market demand would not support the cost. Although complex, esters are very flexible and the structures can be optimized and balanced to meet a wish list of performance targets. Perhaps the heavy duty fleet market or military applications would realize the benefits if someone made the R&D investment.


Quote:
Hard to say what the finished oil would sell for as this is a marketing decision based on the business plan, but $15-20/quart wouldn't surprise me.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1184022#Post1184022
 
Hi Doug - you seem to be the M1 guru. I had been using M1 10/30 HM in a 00 Jeep 4.7. I liked the HM for boosted additive levels, cleaning, high HTHS, etc. Recently I've gone back to the regular M1 10/30 syn. found a bunch on sale and stocked up. I change between 3-5k miles and use Bosch or Wix filters so it probably doesn't matter. Is that regular silver cap 10/30 still a really good oil?? Jeep 4.7 seems to like it a little on the thin side anyway......
 
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