VOA of Amsoil RD20 5W-20 Racing Oil

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From the report:

LUBE MFR AMSOIL
LUBE TYPE - GRADE SAE 5W20

CONTAMINANT METALS in PPM:
iron--------------------1
chromium-------------0
nickel------------------0
aluminum-------------2
copper-----------------0
lead--------------------0
tin----------------------0
cadmium--------------0
silver-------------------0
titanium---------------0
vanadium-------------0

Other (semi) METALS:
silicon-----------------8
sodium----------------1
potassium-------------1
MULTI-SOURCE METALS:
molybdenum---------1
Antimony-------------0
Manganese-----------0
Lithium---------------0
boron------------------14
ADDITIVE "METALS":
magnesium-----------7
calcium----------------1935
barium-----------------0
phosphorus------------1509
zinc---------------------1676


Water------------- < .1%
visc 100°C----------------9.2 (Claimed 9.0)
TBN--------------------6.41
oxidation-------------- 38
nitration--------------- 9

Goofy Lab comments:
Quote:
NEW LUBE REFERENCE - Data used for baseline reference only; However; In order to provide this new lube as a base line reference, we
need LUBE MANUFACTURER, TYPE _ GRADE. Please contact us so we may input this information into your database;




I clearly provided all that info. Strange. Now we can see that this oil doesn't have the long drain constituents. No base (TBN) enhancers, etc. Of course what we can't see are the organic FM's. Lots of P and Zn. Please note that Oxidation and Nitration don't start at zero. That is why I always say those numbers are kinda pointless on a UOA, unless you know the virgin numbers.
 
I think TeeDub was right about the way it would look. Amsoil is using esters for FM and wear protection I would assume.
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I'm sure this oil will do excellent in ts intended application, and I understand that there is stuf that doesn't show here, BUT, for the price, it 'looks' weak.

I know this is just a 'racing oil', but when you are paying $11/quart; it should do more than just be a race/drain out oil - it should have enough TBN to survivie 'some' street use....

Pablo, does this VOA change your mind on how long you'll run it for in your Honda van?
 
I think it will easily run the OLM time. My engines are not TBN killers.

Why would you say it's looks weak? That's pretty close to a lot of TBN's in street oils. Seems like the loved low cost oils have a TBN around 7 to start (as measured)
 
As I said, I know coming from Amsoil, this will work excellent in the proper application. It just 'looks weak' for $11/quart.

Yes, street oils have a TBN of around 7. But they don't cost $11/quart, and aren't specialty race oils.

I'm just thinkinfg that even tho this is marketed as only a race oil, for the price I'd expect to have the 'dual bonus' of being able to run it on the street 'if' one wanted to....
 
I do not think it looks weak at all for its intended purpose. It is built for a specific application. Why do folks think a "race" oil has to be able to run in an everyday grocery getter? Maybe Amsoil should do what Red Line does on their racing oils and state this is not for everyday use. I would imagine the Red Line racing oil also has a low TBN and not a lot of detergents and dispersants in it.

Here is where I see the problem with this new Amsoil racing oil. Amsoil makes an excellent oil and has always advertised about their long drain capabilities. Now here comes Joe six-pack who does not read the small print and says look here, I have a long drain racing oil.

And as for as an $11 quart of oil, you're not putting this in you $30K family car, it was designed to put in you $40K engine, on race day.

Just my $.02
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy


I'm just thinkinfg that even tho this is marketed as only a race oil, for the price I'd expect to have the 'dual bonus' of being able to run it on the street 'if' one wanted to....


Frankly I thought that too. That's why in another thread I wrongly predicted the TBN would be higher. Even I think Amsoil just says "stuff" from time to time. Just tells us, they aren't kidding.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I do not think it looks weak at all for its intended purpose. It is built for a specific application. Why do folks think a "race" oil has to be able to run in an everyday grocery getter? Maybe Amsoil should do what Red Line does on their racing oils and state this is not for everyday use. I would imagine the Red Line racing oil also has a low TBN and not a lot of detergents and dispersants in it.

Here is where I see the problem with this new Amsoil racing oil. Amsoil makes an excellent oil and has always advertised about their long drain capabilities. Now here comes Joe six-pack who does not read the small print and says look here, I have a long drain racing oil.

And as for as an $11 quart of oil, you're not putting this in you $30K family car, it was designed to put in you $40K engine, on race day.

Just my $.02


Johnny, I DO agree that if it is just intended to be a race oil, people shouldn't expect it to do more.

I think my critique has more to do with a personal expectation - We've seen that Amsoil oils are so well formulated, that even when used in non-intended applications, they do really well b/c they are so well made. Some examples include TooSlick(?) running 'AFF' 0W-40 to 10k in his TT, and it doing really well, when it certainly isn't 'designed to do that. He has mentioned he also did this with the 10W-30 WCT(?) oil as well.

You can see why the oils can do this right away when you look at the UOA's - add levels and TBN are very, very high, even when they don't 'have' to be. So I, at least, have come to expect that ANY oil Amsoil makes will be an oil with a 'killer' add-pack on paper, and a sky-high TBN, even is it doesn't need it.

Here, on paper, we have a 'weakish' add-pack (for argument, no Moly, Boron, and Ca less that 2500ppm), and a TBN of only 6.4, which is low for Amsoil. Even with these facts, I'm sure this oil will survive 10k drains w/o really trying, but it doesn't 'look' like it will. Now I'm REALLY looking frorward to seeing Pabs UOA at the end of this run!
 
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True, but addyguy why do you think it's weak because it has no moly or ca? This suggests to me they are using expensive esters for FM and anti-wear performance.

I wouldn't make this more complicated than it is. It's a racing oil. Amsoil is simply offering a racing oil for those that have street cars but as Pablo said, the Tbn is on par with most oils today. Regular Mobil 1 only has a 8.5 Tbn now. Tbn retention is another story, but you get the point....
 
In my mind, more Moly/Boron/Ca makes for a more varied, and therefore 'strong' add pack. No, its not scientific, but I'm only at the 'level' of understanding where I see more good UOA's from oils that have a balance of all these elements, so I equate it with good....

You're right, its a racing oil, with increased Zinc, which is what racers want. Amsoil has a ton of other oils if you want something else. If you have money tied up in racing, $11/quart for oil is nothing.

BUT, I can't help wonder how a racing engine would fare on another Amosoil oil in the proper grade - would they see a definite benefit from this oil. IE, running ASM 0W-20 over RD20 in a full race application, or ATM over RD30....
 
The primary target or engine type for this oil is an engine with flatt tappet cams. Otherwise, your ASM will work just as well most likely.

A pure guess on my part, but RD20, ASM and SSSO look very similar in terms of FM/AW additives only the RD's are using higher ZDP for flat tppt cam engines. .02
 
It looks like you'd have to be very careful with this oil in some of the Brinn transmissions and also very careful in motorcycle wet clutch applications.
 
People are saying this is specifically a racing oil, although Amsoil does say that it can be used on the street. Right?

Quote:

Applications include, but are not limited to, the following:
• Modified Small Block • Asphalt Late Model • GM Crate Late Model • NHRA Stock Eliminator • Bracket • Midget • Kart • Junior Dragster • Other domestic and import high-performance racing and street applications requiring 20-weight oil. The low-viscosity formulation and robust additive package of Dominator 5W-20 make it ideal for use as a high-strength qualifying oil.


Basically, I'm wondering if the 10w-30 would be a good oil a hard driven turbo street car for about 6-7k mile OCI's. Heck, the 5w-20 is just as thick as a lot of Energy Conserving xw-30's after some shearing.
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Good winter oil? Looks like the calcium is about half of SSO, so would a good OCI be half of SSO's?

Isn't the zinc and phosphorus even higher than HDD 5w-30? I'm on my second OEM turbo in 65k miles and I want this one to last at least 150k miles.
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Although, I wouldn't want my cats to die either.

-Dennis
 
Amsoil does say street is OK, just not extended OCI's.

6-7K would be about the outside limit, I would speculate...

Yes the P and Zn is above the levels in ACD and HDD.
 
Quote:
Oxidation readings > 10 are common in full synthetics indicating esters and other synthetic components.


ASM also shows a virgin oxidation # of 35, signifying some ester base oils.

SSO & ASM both use no boron/moly and have put up some of the best UOA's on the board so far.
 
RD20 does appear to have some Boron, about a 10-15 ppm target.

Quote:
Here, on paper, we have a 'weakish' add-pack (for argument, no Moly, Boron, and Ca less that 2500ppm), and a TBN of only 6.4, which is low for Amsoil. Even with these facts,


Esters and special polymers can beef up the oil.

In a race oil you want less calcium metals so TBN will be lower, less Moly metals, and magnesium metals for lower ash.

Probably not a long OCI oil, but may be a sreamer for qualifying and for cars using 5W20 for grins.
 
Well, er.....I went a little longer than I intended on the oil due to weather and just being busy. 9901 miles*. Sample packaged and ready to go out.

*This is 1 full OLM reset and 50% this time. Van now has 50K miles.
 
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