Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob?

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This is not my WRX, the uoa was posted on nasioc.com:

Stock car, OEM air filter, Purolator Pure one oil filter, lots of stop and go driving during the daily commute. M1 5W-30 went in again.

Miles on oil: 4,900
Miles on motor: 70,700

Element Value (Universal Average)
ALUMINUM 2 (3)
CHROMIUM 0 (1)
IRON 6 (8)
COPPER 18 (5)
LEAD 5 (5)
TIN 0 (1)
MOLYBDENUM 87 (73)
NICKEL 0 (0)
MANGANESE 0 (1)
SILVER 0 (0)
TITANIUM 0 (0)
POTASSIUM 1 (1)
BORON 40 (65)
SILICON 13 (9)
SODIUM 6 (8)
CALCIUM 2552 (2401)
MAGNESIUM 14 (113)
PHOSPHORUS 636 (730)
ZINC 830 (870)
BARIUM 0 (0)

Property Value (Should Be)
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 57.6 (55-62)
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 9.54 (8.8-11.1)
Flashpoint F 375 (>365)
Fuel % Antifreeze % 0 (0)
Water % 0 (0)
Insolubles % 0.2 (
Copper was the only wear metal above average in the first sample from your Subaru. This shows excess wear at a brass/bronze part, such as a bushing. We have noticed many Subarus running Mobil one have high copper. We don't normally think that oil brand makes a difference, but maybe in this engine it does. Try something else to see. No harmful contaminants were found in the sample and the viscosity of the oil read normally. Universal averages for the 2.0L are based on an oil run of ~4,700 miles. Wear other than copper looks good. Check back for another look.

My take:
Copper could be from the oil cooler. I know you normally can't draw too many conclusions on a baseline uoa, but the comments from Blackstone are interesting.

I recommended a more robust M1 (TDT, HM), GC or Amsoil. Any other comments or recommendations?

Thanks,
Dennis
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afaik, high Fe and Cu is normally addressed by raising the visc. M1 0w-40 or GC would be the winter fill I'd look for that car in NJ.
 
The Valvoline MaxLife might be a good, readily available, off-the-shelf oil, alternative to try...

On the "boutique" list, how about the Schaeffer's. Either the 7,000 or 9,000 versions. There's always RL too.
 
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
I recommended a more robust M1 (TDT, HM), GC or Amsoil. Any other comments or recommendations?

No, more robust Mobil1 HM will not help. I had exactly same issue with high Cu of 15 ppm on my Outback XT after 5600 miles (engine is same). I used to use M1 HM 10w30, so try something else.
 
I always forget about Max Life because I've never seen the synthetic, only the blend. Just like I've never seen Rotella 10w-30. Well, I think I saw that once in MD or VA.

-Dennis
 
That's what it looks like they're saying. Although maybe referring specifically to turbos.
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I know for the Subaru 2.5L Universal Averages, Blackstone does not separate n/a and turbo.

-Dennis
 
I went back and looked at a few UOA's and some of the M1/Subaru turbo's did have higher Cu. But it wasn't conclusive based on the 3 I looked at. Some oils have a particular chemistry that can show higher values, such as Redline/Pb.

I'm really curious if it's just M1 and why it's showing higher Cu.
 
No great mystery here, the oil's simply too thin for this application. I'd try Delvac 1 if you want to stick with a Mobil synthetic. You could also run the Mobil 1/15w-50 since that's easier to find.
 
Oh, for comparison this is a 2004 WRX which has the 2.0L.

buster, I was thinking about RL's comments that you posted in this thread .

I'm no uoa expert but, I think these cars get better results when not using an Energy Conserving oil if they're driven moderately hard. AndyH got moderately higher wear in his STI when switching from GC to PP 5w-30.

Some of the best M1 Subaru turbo uoa's that I've seen are a lot of highway driving ("Dave" on here, IIRC) or a guy on nasioc adding two quarts of 15w-50 to 3 qts of 10w-30.

-Dennis
 
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Originally Posted By: TeeDub
No great mystery here, the oil's simply too thin for this application. I'd try Delvac 1 if you want to stick with a Mobil synthetic. You could also run the Mobil 1/15w-50 since that's easier to find.


How is that impacting the Cu? Just curiouis. Thanks
 
Buster,

There's no reason to suspect chemical leaching of copper from the oil cooler. This engine already has 70,000+ miles on it and this is only a 5k run, so there's plenty of TBN reserve.

I think the copper may be from the turbocharger bearings, and the Pb (main bearing overlays) is also high, hence the oil looks too thin for this particular engine under these particular operating conditions.

Make sense?
 
Saw the thread on nasioc.com. Check out my 2004 WRX analysis. IMHO, I do not think Mobil is the cause of high copper. Unfortunately, neither of the oils I used are available. My suggestion is to give Mobil 1 HM 10w-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5w-40 a try. Preference is Mobil 1 HM 10w-40 since this WRX already has 70k miles.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post253814

I am personally using M1 0w-40 now but have not had any analysis done lately.
 
Originally Posted By: TeeDub
No great mystery here, the oil's simply too thin for this application. I'd try Delvac 1 if you want to stick with a Mobil synthetic. You could also run the Mobil 1/15w-50 since that's easier to find.


You don't think there would be any problems in the winter using 15-50W motor oil as opposed to the recommended fill of 5-30W? Cold start wear is a non-issue to you?
 
Originally Posted By: jerseygeorge
Originally Posted By: TeeDub
No great mystery here, the oil's simply too thin for this application. I'd try Delvac 1 if you want to stick with a Mobil synthetic. You could also run the Mobil 1/15w-50 since that's easier to find.


You don't think there would be any problems in the winter using 15-50W motor oil as opposed to the recommended fill of 5-30W? Cold start wear is a non-issue to you?

Actually, 5w-30 is the preferred fill for fuel economy. 15w-50 might be too thick for winter but 10w-30 and 10w-40 are allowed for temps of 0F and above.
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-Dennis
 
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