Amsoil Recommendations for BMW - why?

[jpr]

Let me get out of the way first that this is mainly a matter of curiousity rather than practical need. But I'm wondering why the Amsoil oil product lookup guide seems to select the wrong oil for BMW engines.

In my particular case it's an E46 with an M52TU engine, but I get the same results selecting for a M54 engine.

The Amsoil product lookup guide advises three oils:
SAE 0W-30 Synthetic Signature Series Oil (SSO)- ACEA A5, Kv100=10.3
SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (ASL) - ACEA A5, Kv100=10.7
SAE 5W-30 XL Synthetic Motor Oil (XLF) - ACEA A1,Kv100=10.5

In contrast, every BMW approved oil is an ACEA A3 and the lowest Kv100 I've seen on an approved oil is 11.3.

Now if you to the detailed product specs for each of the above listed Amsoil oils, none of them state or imply suitability for BMW's.

Amsoil does have one oil that is an ACEA A3, has a Kv100 in the range of known BMW approved oils, and is listed as suitably equivalent to the BMW LL-04 spec and that is the Euro 5W-40 (AFL).

But you sure wouldn't know that from the product look-up guide.

So is the recommendation generator just a rather simplistic one only spitting out the 0W-30 and 5W-30 oils, or is there actually some technically logical reason to recommend those three oils but not the AFL for BMWs?

 

[bmwtechguy]

If you call BMW or Mini's customer service or hotline tollfree number listed on the engine oil sticker, they recommend "full synthetic 5W-30 from Valvoline, Castrol, or Mobil 1." None of these are ACEA A3 oils either and this recommendation goes against the owner's manual requirements, which would point to the AFL 5W-40 Euro as a more suitable choice.

I don't have a technical answer to your question. I would ask this same question to Amsoil's tech dept. via their website. It usually takes a few days to get a response. I do know that the thinner oils have produced good results, especailly in newer engines. I am more inclined to use the 5W-40 in warmer climates, or where consumption is higher. I think you will find that either will work fine, with a slight fuel economy advantage using the thinner oils.

 

[SamSpade]

jpr, I would guess Amsoil's website/database coders overlooked BMW oil requirements. Every BMW LL-01/LL-04 oil I've seen are ACEA A3/B3 (HTHS>3.5). They're either on the heavy side of 0/5W-30 or light side of 0/5W-40.

Take web-based product selector guides with a grain of salt. They have thousands of vehicles on file and wouldn't be surprising if they make mistakes on a few dozen.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
If you call BMW or Mini's customer service or hotline tollfree number listed on the engine oil sticker, they recommend "full synthetic 5W-30 from Valvoline, Castrol, or Mobil 1." None of these are ACEA A3 oils either and this recommendation goes against the owner's manual requirements, which would point to the AFL 5W-40 Euro as a more suitable choice.



That's exactly right. Because BMW of NA does say you can use an SM oil.

I just grabbed a random recommendation.

Quote:
2008 BMW 750Li 4.8L 8-cyl Engine Code N62 B48



LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS
Engine Oil
Grade 1......SM[1]
XXXXXXX
All Temps......5W-30[2]

1. To prevent potential engine damage, use only BMW
High Performance Synthetic Oil part No 07 51 0 017 866 or
equivalent. Refer to engine compartment oil change decal.
2. To prevent potential engine damage, use only BMW
High Performance Synthetic Oil part No 07 51 0 017 866 or
equivalent. Refer to engine compartment oil change decal.


Amsoil gets the information for their online guide and other fitments from a 3rd party company (Alltech or Alldata or something like that - it's Sunday, CRS)

This company provides the above data.

Amsoil looks it over and inserts the XXXXXXX

In this case =

SAE 0W-30 Synthetic Signature Series Oil
SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
SAE 5W-30 XL Synthetic Motor Oil

Because they have determined these oils can be used with no problems.

Now they remain open minded. If knowledgeable fellows have issues with these recommendations, either tell me or:

Quote:
DISCLAIMER & TECHNICAL CONCERNS

Specifications contained on this website are based on manufacturers' information and were believed accurate at the time of publication. Our recommendations apply to AMSOIL products only, as we cannot be responsible for products from other manufacturers. Always compare fluids and lubricants that were installed in the vehicle with those replacing them during service. Never install more fluid or lubricant than what is considered adequate according to gradients on dipstick or level of filler hole. Fill and drain locations are for reference only. Failure to perform adequate inspections or obtain proper resolution will limit or negate any liability toward AMSOIL, Inc.
Models introduced midyear may not have the same specifications as those produced earlier.

If any discrepancies are noted, they can be simply reported to AMSOIL by clicking on the "Report Discrepancies" button found on the top of each application page. All discrepancies are reviewed and if you would like a response, please indicate so by placing your email address in the box provided on the form.

 

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
If you call BMW or Mini's customer service or hotline tollfree number listed on the engine oil sticker, they recommend "full synthetic 5W-30 from Valvoline, Castrol, or Mobil 1." None of these are ACEA A3 oils either and this recommendation goes against the owner's manual requirements, which would point to the AFL 5W-40 Euro as a more suitable choice.



That's exactly right. Because BMW of NA does say you can use an SM oil.

I just grabbed a random recommendation.

Quote:
2008 BMW 750Li 4.8L 8-cyl Engine Code N62 B48



LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS
Engine Oil
Grade 1......SM[1]
XXXXXXX
All Temps......5W-30[2]

1. To prevent potential engine damage, use only BMW
High Performance Synthetic Oil part No 07 51 0 017 866 or
equivalent. Refer to engine compartment oil change decal.
2. To prevent potential engine damage, use only BMW
High Performance Synthetic Oil part No 07 51 0 017 866 or
equivalent. Refer to engine compartment oil change decal.


Amsoil gets the information for their online guide and other fitments from a 3rd party company (Alltech or Alldata or something like that - it's Sunday, CRS)

This company provides the above data.

Amsoil looks it over and inserts the XXXXXXX

In this case =

SAE 0W-30 Synthetic Signature Series Oil
SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
SAE 5W-30 XL Synthetic Motor Oil

Because they have determined these oils can be used with no problems.

Now they remain open minded. If knowledgeable fellows have issues with these recommendations, either tell me or:

Quote:
DISCLAIMER & TECHNICAL CONCERNS

Specifications contained on this website are based on manufacturers' information and were believed accurate at the time of publication. Our recommendations apply to AMSOIL products only, as we cannot be responsible for products from other manufacturers. Always compare fluids and lubricants that were installed in the vehicle with those replacing them during service. Never install more fluid or lubricant than what is considered adequate according to gradients on dipstick or level of filler hole. Fill and drain locations are for reference only. Failure to perform adequate inspections or obtain proper resolution will limit or negate any liability toward AMSOIL, Inc.
Models introduced midyear may not have the same specifications as those produced earlier.

If any discrepancies are noted, they can be simply reported to AMSOIL by clicking on the "Report Discrepancies" button found on the top of each application page. All discrepancies are reviewed and if you would like a response, please indicate so by placing your email address in the box provided on the form.


Never noticed that "report discrepancies" option before...

I sent a note in, so we'll see what happens next.

I don't suppose I'll get a cut of what Amsoil is sending to AllData

 

[TeeDub]

The Amsoil 5w-40 European Formula, or Series 3000, 5w-30 would be my two recommendations here. The 12+ TBN Series 3000 exceeds the ACEA, A3/B3 specification and would be my first choice for OCI's > 10,000 miles in European engines..

 

[jpr]

Email sent -
Quote:
Ref: 1999 BMW 323i 2.5L 6-cyl Engine Code M52 B25

The guide recommends the following:
SAE 0W-30 Synthetic Signature Series Oil
SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
SAE 5W-30 XL Synthetic Motor Oil
But these are all ACEA A5 or A1 oils, whereas BMW specifies and ACEA A3 oil.

I believe the AFL Euro 5W-40 would be a much more suitable recommendation for BMW engines.

Regards,
John


Reply recieved -
Quote:
John;

The AFL can be safely used, but BMW is recommending 5W30, not 5W40 viscosity oil.

Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.


Sincerely,

xxxxx xxxxxxxx
Technical Services


Basically, it's the same propagation of incomplete information as one gets from BMW's "help" line. Somehow in the USA market, they seem unable to to go beyond the simple, easy to understand, wrong answer of 5W-30, API blessed.

For reference, the BMW TIS system has this to say on the subject of viscosity grades -
Quote:
Longlife oils
These oils satisfy the requirements of specification ACEA:A3/B3. Moreover, they are tested by BMW for their suitability for extended oil service intervals and can be used all year round, regardless of ambient temperature.
...
BMW longlife oils, as specified for all BMW vehicles since 1998, are tested by BMW to ensure that they can be used
anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature. If BMW longlife oils are used, it is
therefore not necessary to keep a check on the viscosity grade. BMW longlife oils are only available with viscosity
grades SAE 0W-30, SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 5W-40.

 

[sprintman]

I'm still waiting on a TSO equivalent 0W40. Not holding my breath

 

[jpr]

As another reference, using Castrol's product selector also produces incorrect results - two ACEA A1 oils and two non-ACEA rated dino oils.

Mobil's website, however, does actually return their one BMW approved product, the M1 0W-40.