CerMet, XADO and Cermax engine treatments

Status
Not open for further replies.
Right-on Gary!
thumbsup2.gif


If only we can tell that to whoasttatname called "allan walkman" or similar and watch his skin creep...

Nah! on the second thought, that might not be necessary. Afterall: you don't try to preach faith to a well-educated, acadamically-competent fella whose going to join an MLM marketing scheme and become the distributor for that call whsatsumwecalledit? Oh! EnvorooMarx? and also inquire about Cermet (XADO)....

11.gif
crackmeup2.gif


Q
 
It's been done so many times. There's a whole sub culture of con men millionaires it's not even funny. They usually are current or former "racing flies". They're sorta like bar flies ..except that they manipulate or buy there way into racing circles to use the associations to bolster their legitimacy with their marks. They even have "sub racing flies" that follow them around to get in on the scams with them.

Low life thieves come in all shapes and sizes. They own fancy cars and have beach front homes and belong to upscale country clubs. It's as much of a profession and career to them as being a master engine builder is. They take pride in being able to do this type of stuff and make a large living at it.
 
Good description of snake oil salesmen above. Let's talk about the other side of the coin... people who fall for these schemes and their psychology.

Someone once did a good job pointing out that there is an intrinsic need for a person to feel superior to his peers. When a slick-talking snake oil salesman comes along, the person listening latches on to this information, then turns to his friends and says "look at what I know that you don't know". He feels superior and at the same time he feels that he's treating his car better than his friends. It makes him feel good that he's treating his car to a wonderful potion. He even goes so far as to believe that he's learned something that a whole city of automotive engineers is "too dumb" to comprehend.

If you read automotive boards long enough, you'll realize that the placebo effect of these products is rather strong... even to the point that the users get religious in the face of overwhelming facts and logic.
 
HAHA you guys are cracking me up..

Anyway I sent the XADO salesman following email asking him to send me a sample for testing after which I would share my findings with BITOG and Audi World forum..

I will let his reply speak for itself:

Dear Dejan,

I really appreciate your interest in our technology, as I told you before. I am quite familial with BITOG and the group of closed-minded guys that tend to dominate the discussions regarding anything truly new. With all due respect, I doubt that anything you can say will Change their minds. I have no doubt that you would likely be ridiculed an agent of our company sent to spred more snake oil lies to that community. Please don't take this personally. I mean no offense.

XADO works. You can can look as hard as you want for evidence to the contrary. Only those who are so smart they know it won't work say bad things about it. (I'm really glas I wasn't that smart).

Best regards,

Justin Clark

------- Original Message ------- On 9/8/2008 2:47 PM Dejan Neskovic wrote:
Justin and Eva,

Looks like XADO is very interesting product , but after talking with my friends on "Bob is the Oil Guy" - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ and Audi World - http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/ forums I found that lot of people think of your product as another snake oil product and dismiss it right of the bat. Being an engineer I like to test products and figure out if they really do what they claim.

I find you product very innovative and I would like to propose following experiment:

Would you be interested in sending me a complimentary XADO kit to fully treat my engine, transmission, differential and power steering in my 2001 Audi S4 with 128000 miles.

In return I will preform and document several before and after tests on my car:
- fuel economy
- oil temperature
- engine power
- perform oil analysis
- noise level

Results of these tests would be shared with you, my friends and on the above mentioned forums.

If your product works as claimed you will be getting a lot of new customers, most of which are car guys and want to keep their cars in top running condition. It would be a win/win situation for all of us. I get free kit and you get the free PR and more customers and as you know best marketing is the word of mouth marketing.

Thanks,
Dejan
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By:
... Only those who are so smart they know it won't work say bad things about it. (I'm really glas I wasn't that smart)...
They way he wrote this, it sounds perjurous.

Originally Posted By:
... I doubt that anything you can say will Change their minds...
Only good, peer-reviewed data will change our minds - not slick talk that borrows scientific verbage and format.

I hope you offer goes through. We need more 'consumer reports' type of analysis on this board.

If his product is as good as the brochure claims, he should have no problem getting it accepted by the Big Three. The auto companies all conduct programs where they scientifically evaluate every off-the-wall product or idea (except for perpetual motion machines), in hopes the public may have stumbled onto something innovative and hopefully profitable for the company. All he has to do is get their attention and send samples for evaluation where these companies have the proper resources to put the product through its paces. If it does everything the pamphlet claims, we'll soon see this additive in every new car produced, and back-spec'ed for older vehicles.

Since Dmitry Tananko works at Ford, he should have no problem getting their attention.
 
*laughing my head off silly!*

(quote)
...best marketing is the word of mouth marketing....(quote)

Now that's what I would called "hearsays"!

crackmeup2.gif


RE: salesman's pitch, haven't your momma ever taught you not to trust any strangers esp. salesmen? (I know mine did)

thumbsup2.gif
 
Last edited:
I looked at the XADO web site, don't have online ordering yet but they sell it on ebay. The "engine treatment" is sold in a 9 ml tube and sells for $33.99 + $7.60 shipping(kinda steep for shipping a little tube!) and as I understand it you need 3 "treatments". At that price I doubt they will get many suckers..... and those that do certainly will not want to admit they wasted that much money...

Yep, I'm one of those naysayers that wouldn't trust this stuff at all!
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Yes. He lives in Bloomfield Hills, MI, and also works at Cermet. I wouldn't talk to him. I doubt that I'd be interested in anything he has to say.

Though someone on the Mercedesshop web site (whom I had a row with, and who lives in Texas) says he is working with the inventor.

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=228837
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=219642


Have you had chance to read his patent on: METHOD FOR COMPOSING A NANO-PARTICLE METAL TREATMENT COMPOSITION FOR CREATING A CERAMIC-METAL LAYER

It has very long description and lot of stuff that I don't quite understand, but someone with your background could make sense of it.

Here is a link to the patent description:
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/ia.jsp?ia=US2007/076110&IA=US2007076110&DISPLAY=DESC

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

1. Field of the Invention

[0001] The present invention relates to metal treatment compositions for the lubrication of friction pairs.

2. Description of the Prior Art

[0002] Compositions for lubricating have long been used to prevent direct contact between surfaces of a friction pair. Much research has been done on various lubricant additives, sometimes called friction modifiers, to optimize the ability of the lubricating medium by reducing the coefficient of friction and decreasing the overall wear of the system. It is known in the art to use powders of soft metals such as Copper and Zinc, elements with low shearing bonds between layers such as graphite and disulpides, and polymer-based materials such as polytetraflouroethylene to form protective films on the friction pair surfaces. These films promote improved tribological characteristics of the friction pair by preventing contact with the clean surfaces of the friction pair. A new direction in the field of lubricant additives points toward the use of members of the clay group of minerals. In these developments, dehydrated and pulverized clay are used as solid additives to the lubricant.

[0003] The Russian Patent 2,057,257 to Khrenov, et al., discloses a composition comprising; SiO, MgO, Fe2θ3, FeO, AI2O3, and S having a particle size range of 0.01-1.0 micrometers. The treatment of this composition includes mechanical activation by aperiodic vibrations, but does not include any thermal processing. The U.S. Patent 6,423,669 to Alexandrov et al. discloses a composition prepared from various minerals, which include several clays. The '669 patent teaches the use of the salts and oxides of the metals and non-metals comprising the raw minerals obtained by heating the clay at temperatures not less than 350C.

[0004] Although the prior art discloses the use of pulverized and heated clay as an additive to a lubricant, the resultant composition does not contain or utilize the crystalline layer structure of the clay. Nor does the prior art utilize Tin (II) Chloride in their compositions. The compositions of the prior art comprise merely salts and

Attorney Number: 29505-002

oxides of the metals and non-metals of the clay. A composition that provides further decreases in coefficient of friction and overall system wear must be engineered.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION AND ADVANTAGES [0005] The subject invention provides for a method for composing a metal treatment composition from a clay found in nature for creating a ceramic-metal layer on the surfaces of a friction pair comprising the steps of; producing a clay powder having a particle size range of 1-40 nanometers and being in the full X-ray amorphous state, producing a Magnesium Metasilicate powder having a particle size range of 1-40 nanometers and being in the full X-ray amorphous state, producing a Tin (II) Chloride powder having a particle size range of 1-40 nanometers and being in the full X-ray amorphous state, and mixing a fluid and the clay powder and the Magnesium Metasilicate powder and the Tin (II) Chloride powder to form the metal treatment composition for creating a ceramic-metal layer on the surfaces of a friction pair.

[0006] The proposed invention uses a clay having a unique elemental combination and a layered crystalline structure. The layers contain slip planes that transversely shift when tangential pressure from the friction pair is applied thereby lubricating the friction pair. Additionally, the resultant salts and oxides in the composition are utilized to form a protective ceramic-metal layer on the surface of the friction pair. The invention also utilizes Tin (II) Chloride in the composition to provide an additional component which contributes to the formation of the ceramic-metal layer. Tin is a soft material with excellent plating characteristics. Further, Tin (II) Chloride provides additional Chlorine atoms and ions used to form the Chloric films. These films protect juvenile surfaces which may form in the friction zone. The combination of the ceramic-metal layers and the shifting of slip planes produces a decrease in coefficient of friction of the system, a reduction in overall system wear, and an increase in surface hardness.

there is lot more in the link!
 
Originally Posted By: zoomzoom
Looks like XADO is very interesting product , but after talking with my friends on "Bob is the Oil Guy" - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ and Audi World - http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/ forums I found that lot of people think of your product as another snake oil product and dismiss it right of the bat. Being an engineer I like to test products and figure out if they really do what they claim.

To some degree he is right. If not for oil testing houses/ oil people, count one one hand, a select few oil related products on this place would be in the same boat. I will take BITOG of audiworld and other sites thought. Better yet, email Terry and be done with it.
 
Quote:
I am quite familial with BITOG and the group of closed-minded guys that tend to dominate the discussions regarding anything truly new.

Only engineers that deal with and make their livings from this stuff on a daily basis.
smirk2.gif
smirk2.gif
 
zoomzoom, I got a headache reading through that patent.

I've read my fair share of academic papers. Though I have a good background in crystallography, I don't understand the patent. I recognize the terms, but I just can't see what the author is trying to say. This patent is a fine example of "if you can't dazzle them with facts, baffle them with [censored]". I can only commiserate with the patent officer who had to read it and try to understand it for innovative merit.
 
He must have borrowed some money from the wrong people. Now he's tasked with employing their relatives "back home".
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Well, the fellow that has the patent may be in Michigan, but the XADO product is made in Russia. Enough said. No thanks.


XADO is Ukrainian company, not Russian.
 
Great thread.

I've noticed a lot of engineer types that stand up and say "I know that this stuff is snake oil because I.......".

But quite often it seems that the people really in the know don't offer very much countering info on the snake oils, rather they sit back and point and laugh at the idiots that they also curse for buying into the scams.

This thread shows just how much difference the knowledgeable truly can make when they actually give a ****.
 
Originally Posted By: zoomzoom
Ok before I hear it is a snake oil I want you guys to read this presentation and do a bit research and then lets have a discussion about this ceramic technology and does it really work in combustion engine.

Enjoy!

http://www.cermetlab.com/CerMet Brochure DT presentation.pdf


Good luck ever getting that on this site...lol. They will say, no discussion, one product that costs 26 dollars that may save 8 isn't worth it but another product that costs 26 and saves the same 8 is worth it.
28.gif
 
Just because a racing team says they use a product doesn't mean is does any good or harm .I would bet the racing team is well compensated for saying they use the product, unlike you of I. It might be the greatest product why don't you try the product and let us know
banana2.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top