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#3382263 - 05/27/14 03:41 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14644
Loc: Midwest
The discussion here is focused on Manual Transmission Lubricants for Automobile and Light Truck applications.
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#3394417 - 06/10/14 10:11 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
benjy Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 170
Loc: pa
in my O2J VW 5 spd 2001 jetta i switched to Amsoil series 2000 prolly about 2005. after about 50,000 shifting became poor, could barely get into 5th gear 90 some thousand miles. trannys were known for syncro issues, i changed to MT-90 and shifting got better + better after 2,000 miles worked decent until i ripped the teeth off 5th gear, 30,000 later. got it rebuilt and shifted well until i traded at almost 200,000 miles still with MT-90. traded on a 37,000 mile TT O6M 6 speed, shifting a little rough i put MT-90 in it, shifts great, changed all the fluids due to age! i surely believe in MT-90

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#3486726 - 09/18/14 09:58 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7785
Loc: Barberton,Ohio
Since this whole topic is an epic resurrection of oldness.

I'll throw in my 2 cents and keep it going.

Most of the above doesn't apply to any awd subaru and some porche MT's as they are a transaxle and share the gear oil with hypoid gears.

as such they require a gl-5 which can cause poor shifting if you choose badly.


Some gear oils are dual rated gl-4 and gl-5 but almost always they will cause decreased shift performance if gl-5 isn't required.


Finally, its 2014 and some car manufacturers are going somewhat exotic. Many seem to have some OEM brew fluid that's 30$/qt. Sometimes a different one for different car models in their lineup.

Subaru starting in 2014 with their revised Forester MT
(6th gear added to older 5mt design IIRC)

Factory fills with Subaru Extra MT which is a 75w80 gl-5 MT oil.


Edited by Rand (09/18/14 10:00 PM)
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#3487586 - 09/19/14 04:53 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: Rand]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14644
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: Rand
Since this whole topic is an epic resurrection of oldness.

I'll throw in my 2 cents and keep it going.

Most of the above doesn't apply to any awd subaru and some porche MT's as they are a transaxle and share the gear oil with hypoid gears.


Subaru starting in 2014 with their revised Forester MT
(6th gear added to older 5mt design IIRC)

Factory fills with Subaru Extra MT which is a 75w80 gl-5 MT oil.


Yep, I believe you are referring to this oil

Quote:
H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt range are:

1.[ Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTL

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645
5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF



or this oil

Quote:
J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt (75W90) range would be:

1. Amsoil MTG

2. Redline MT-90

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90

4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90

5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS


All of these oils are synchromesh oils with either a GL-4 or GL-5 protecion rating.

Those synchromesh fluids with GL-5 protection ratings are normally used for tansaxles or driveline systems in which the manual transmission shares a "common" sump with the hypoid differential.

Been discussed in many threads.


Edited by MolaKule (09/19/14 05:00 PM)
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#3488523 - 09/20/14 02:40 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14644
Loc: Midwest
Some of The Differences between MTLs and ATFs:

The commercial additive suppliers have validated the PI packages for GL-4 service when used with specific base oils.

The important thing to consider here is differences between the PI packages and base oils for ATF's versus dedicated MTLs.

The PI package and base oil for ATF's start out with very low (some may say, "very thin") viscosity oils and use additive components for wet clutch applications. The PI package for an ATF has less than 18% of the Anti-Wear (AW) chemistry found in MTLs.

The PI package and base oil for MTL's start out with higher viscosity base oils, use additive components targeted for synchronizer assembly applications, and have about 5.5 times more AW chemistry than do ATFs.


Edited by MolaKule (09/20/14 02:41 PM)
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#3493031 - 09/25/14 10:40 AM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
Wrought_Man Offline


Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 3
Loc: Oklahoma, United States
I have an 05 dodge 1500 with the 3.7 and getrag 238 six speed. It's spec is ap4 which is atf+4. My question is, can I mix synchromesh with atf+4 to achieve better wear protection and hopefully better performance? Thanks.

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#3493100 - 09/25/14 11:39 AM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: Wrought_Man]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14644
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: Wrought_Man
I have an 05 dodge 1500 with the 3.7 and getrag 238 six speed. It's spec is ap4 which is atf+4. My question is, can I mix synchromesh with atf+4 to achieve better wear protection and hopefully better performance? Thanks.


You can, but synthetic fluids such as Redline MTL 75W80 GL-4 Gear Oil or Amsoil MTF would be better choices in my opinion.
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Just pour the coffee and back away slowly! smile

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#3493217 - 09/25/14 01:14 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
Wrought_Man Offline


Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 3
Loc: Oklahoma, United States
From my research atf+4 and gm synchromesh are both synthetic products. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Big plus for me is that they are very easily obtainable at most parts stores whereas redline etc you pretty much have to mail order and is pretty high priced compared to the others I mentioned.

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#3493335 - 09/25/14 03:43 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14644
Loc: Midwest
Pennzoil Synchromesh and ATF+4 are both blends of conventional (mineral) oils (majority) and some synthetic components (minority).

Another option is the Valvoline MTF Synchromesh (readily available as well) and AT+4.

I would use 75% MTF Synchromesh and 25% ATF+4. This shoould bring the viscosity up to about 8.7 cSt which is about halfway between the ATF and MTF viscosity. This will also get you the benefit of more AW and proper friction modification additives.


Edited by MolaKule (09/25/14 03:44 PM)
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#3494474 - 09/26/14 05:47 PM Re: Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants [Re: MolaKule]
Wrought_Man Offline


Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 3
Loc: Oklahoma, United States
I had already did a custom blend before I saw your recommendation of 75% mtf and 25% atf+4. So my mix was 1 qt syncromesh and 1.5 qt atf+4. Not sure what I drained out but it was pretty dark and smelled bad. On the first test drive it shifted better. I will go with the mtf next time but didn't see it on the shelf where I got the synchromesh. Thank you for your help!

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