Honda mower, sticky valves, non-warrantee issue

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I have a fairly new Honda self propelled mower that sometimes won't start, no compression. I have called Honda and also talked to a local good shop. I asked if the engine had a compression release and they said no.

This seems to be an issue with the Honda engines but Honda calls it a "maintenance issue" and will NOT cover the "fix", (rebuild/clean top end) under warranty.

He says they are seeing a lot of this exact problem and are blaming it on the gas breaking down too fast. I mow every 5-6 days and fill the tank every second mow. Gas is not "that" old! LOL

The guy I spoke to locally suggested trying some Sea Foam in the fuel to see if the crud will dissolve and free up the valve problem. (mower is one year old last week!)

I'm wondering if maybe the Sea Foam in the OIL would be a better place to start. Their "fix" is to pull the engine apart and clean the valve stems! (yea, on a year old $600 mower I'm going to dump a couple hundred bucks into that!)

When it sticks, it will not start, just spins and spins and sometimes farts out the muffler, which leads me to believe the exhaust valve is sticking open.

Anyone have any suggestions on whether to add it to the gas or oil? Or maybe some AutoRX? I still have a little bit of that left too.

Any suggestions are much appreciated!

Mark (A not so happy Honda mower owner!)
 
I'd add it to both! Kind of a one time super does shock treatment to get the thing to run. Then change the oil.

Then, start using Seafoam or Stabil on a regular basis to stabilize the fuel and prevent this kind of stuff.

I've solved all my mower problems by using Stabil since it both stabilizes the fuel and cleans deposits. Seafoam does the same thing.
 
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Thanks Drew. I'll add the Sea Foam to both. I started to mow at 7am, pulled and pulled to no avail. Finally gave up and went to the shop and worked till lunch. Walked out, gave it a yank and VaaRoooom!

so..... now I get to mow mid day when it's 110 degrees! Guess i'll run to Checker for some Sea Foam so I can get it in before mowing today.

I also have a Honda Recall Notice about a carb problem. Need to get it in for that too! Maybe it's related somehow?

Mark
 
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The problem is getting that valve closed.
You could bend one of those little spray hoses so you could spray into the spark plug hole and get some spray (carb cleaner or WD-40 like stuff) on the valve itself.
Another option would be to pull the valve cover off and look for obvious broken parts.
Of course, if the cover shows signs of 'owner tampering' your scrood if there is something wrong under there.
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If you could easily take the muffler/exhaust manifold off, might be a good idea to do like dwent said and spray the exhaust valve with something like Seafoam Deepcreep, then pull the cord a few times to distribute it.
 
It's working find now. After pulling and pulling, I gave up for about 3 hours and went to work. Came back and it had compression and fired first pull.

I dumped the fuel and added 1/4 can of SF to my mower gas can, then filled the mower. Also added 2 tablespoons to the oil. Just finished mowing without incident. Will change the oil after the next mow. So far, so good.
 
The Hondas do stick intake valves due to varnish on the stems. Use a proper gas stabilizer, and never run any gas that smells stale. Some oxygenated/alcohol blends degrade quicker than you would think. You'll do more good adding solvents to the fuel vs the oil. I don't like to add any addl solvents to mower oil especially if it is a GCV/GSV series.
 
in Az, you're probably getting the benzene loaded North Slope crude gas out of a Calif refinery and the local tank farm fuel tanker is mixing in 10% ethanol. benzene and ethanol both boil off in a vented mower gas tank in summer heat with the resulting residual they carry with them being the goop from [censored]. Bunker C is cleaner
pull spark plug
crank over engine until intake valve is closed. fill intake manifold runner with Berryman B12 and let set. do same for exhaust.
then repeat in combustion chamber both valves closed.
drain out all B12, crank engine over multiple times to blow out comb. chamber. drain off oil and let set with crankcase and comb. chamber open for B12 to evaporate.

look for a station in your area that carries non ethanol gas in the summer mowing season. there are still a few left.
run Stabil continuously in your gas and B12 a capful to a gallon of gas.
if you have LCD FP on hand for cars, use it in the mower fuel. works well on the poorly designed small engine gas intake systems.

Seafoam is too expensive for what is in the can.
 
I don't think we have any non-ethanol gas around here, it's mandated.

I got all my mowing done and then when it was off and cooled, I pulled the rope slowly until on the compression stroke, hoping that if any valve does stick again, it won't be stuck "open" and the first pull will push it open and get-r-going!!

Going to try to take it in today for the carb replacement if I have time.
 
"Any suggestions are much appreciated!"

Get a better mower. Never had such problems with a Tecumseh powered mower that we bought used 15 years ago, and gave away to someone earlier this year as someone gave us another mower. It would sit from fall thru mid spring without being used.
 
I agree with 1sttruck. You spent 600 on a mower and expected quality equipment that would last you a while. If it is starting this now, now is the time to sell it and try a different mower brand. It's only going to get worse.
 
Originally Posted By: 1977c10phxdriver
I have a fairly new Honda self propelled mower that sometimes won't start, no compression. I have called Honda and also talked to a local good shop. I asked if the engine had a compression release and they said no.

This seems to be an issue with the Honda engines but Honda calls it a "maintenance issue" and will NOT cover the "fix", (rebuild/clean top end) under warranty.

He says they are seeing a lot of this exact problem and are blaming it on the gas breaking down too fast. I mow every 5-6 days and fill the tank every second mow. Gas is not "that" old! LOL

The guy I spoke to locally suggested trying some Sea Foam in the fuel to see if the crud will dissolve and free up the valve problem. (mower is one year old last week!)

I'm wondering if maybe the Sea Foam in the OIL would be a better place to start. Their "fix" is to pull the engine apart and clean the valve stems! (yea, on a year old $600 mower I'm going to dump a couple hundred bucks into that!)

When it sticks, it will not start, just spins and spins and sometimes farts out the muffler, which leads me to believe the exhaust valve is sticking open.

Anyone have any suggestions on whether to add it to the gas or oil? Or maybe some AutoRX? I still have a little bit of that left too.

Any suggestions are much appreciated!

Mark (A not so happy Honda mower owner!)



What model engine/mower do you have? My guess would be the GCV160. I have one (as well as a GCV190). Never had a problem with the valves. What kind of crud are you referrring to? Is it in the gas? My gas doesn't have any crud in it.
 
Honda are making some great small engines. Smooth with good efficiency and yes starts are a breeze. I was impress with their power washers....I did also like the old B&S engines made in USA...not as efficient but built like a brick. They lasted a lifetime....fuel diluted even then!
 
Mark, if it's any consolation, I've heard of the exact same issue with some new Kohler engine powered Cub Cadets. Kohler/Cub also blames it on degraded gasoline. I guess it's plausible on small OHV/OHC OPE, but it sure seems like that valve stem should be getting adequate lube from the engine oil to prevent this? Stem seals too tight maybe?

Joel
 
Try some full synthetic 2 stroke oil in the gas. Mix at 100 to 1.

That is an old trick that works quite well. By the way, I suggested full synthetic, because mineral oils will build up on the exhaust valve and may result in sticking. The full syn is better able to handle exhaust valve heat.

You may be surprised at the results!

Chris
 
good point cujet,
most of these OHV air cooled engines run hotter exhaust valve temps due to the restrictions of cooling an OHV head with air. exhaust valve stem area is usually on far side from air flow plus far less metal mass in head thus less cooling.
syn. oils generally hold up better to heat with less oil breakdown products buildup

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Try some full synthetic 2 stroke oil in the gas. Mix at 100 to 1.

That is an old trick that works quite well. By the way, I suggested full synthetic, because mineral oils will build up on the exhaust valve and may result in sticking. The full syn is better able to handle exhaust valve heat.

You may be surprised at the results!

Chris
 
Well, so far so good. It fired right up and ran fine on my last mow. I took it in same day for the warranty carb replacement. Hope to get it back Tuesday! My lawn is in need of a haircut. I'm going to try the Sea Foam a little longer and then change the oil.

I've had a lot if B&S engines on mowers and they all ran good but did seem to start smoking earlier than I expected. Decided to give the Honda a try. Being in construction, I've seen first hand how nice the Honda's run on equipment and wanted to give one a try.
 
Ill keep an eye on my GCV160...this is my first season with it. I run 87 with fuel stabl and also run Amsoil Small Engine oil. So far it starts on the first pull...well see what happens when i store it this winter.
 
If I'm not mistaken, my manual says to run 89 octane or higher with my engine (GCV 160). However, my new HRX217 (GCV190) will run on 87 octane. Interesting.
 
Personally, for the price you probably paid for that thing, I would not accept their [censored]. Honda engines went way down hill in their quality and that is why it is sticking. Make them fix it under warranty of find a dealer that will.

I just yanked the cover off my power washer and cannot think of a reason why they would stick unless the guides are damaged. The springs are pretty weak, but no weaker than any other lawnmower engine.
 
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