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#1196764 - 07/18/08 04:03 PM BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2
jpr Offline


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 383
Loc: San Diego, CA
With a salute to shortyb's thread - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1128148#Post1128148 - here's what it looks like under the valve cover of my 1999 323i with 92,554 miles. It's been on BMW 5W-30 with OEM filters it's entire life and has been getting it's oil changed based on what the OLM dictated.

That has given it the following OCI's:
1/8/1999 - drove it off the lot w/ 7 miles on the odometer
1/12/2000 - Oil change - 16,363 miles and 369 days
4/12/2001 - Oil change - 14,241 miles and 456 days
8/28/2002 - Oil change - 15,366 miles and 503 days
3/29/2004 - Oil change - 14,101 miles and 579 days
10/20/2005 - Oil change - 14,248 miles and 570 days
11/26/2007 - Oil change - 13,941 miles and 767 days

I pulled the valve cover to assess the need for running an Auto-RX cycle and fully expected to find things a bit gunked up. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised by how clean things are. There's a little but of staining on the vanos housing and some minor sludge on the cover nooks and crannies, but the running gear was pristine.

BTW - UOA on the oil currently in the engine is here - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1194277#Post1194277




Edited by jpr (07/18/08 04:11 PM)

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#1196996 - 07/18/08 09:38 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jpr]
JAG Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4518
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks. Nice pics. It's interesting how some areas are pristine and others are crudded up. Those BMW intervals are very long!

Does the engine have a traditional PCV valve? I've heard conflicting answers on that.

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#1197265 - 07/19/08 09:24 AM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: JAG]
jpr Offline


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 383
Loc: San Diego, CA
I'm not particularly familar with this, but the engine uses a CCV/oil separator instead of the traditional PCV -

Here's a good summation I found - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2158829
 Quote:
On BMW's, the PCV "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" valve (usually named as such on other brands of cars) has a different name, but the device has a similar function. The official name for that part on many BMW's including your particular BMW (E39) is the "Pressure Regulating Valve" which is part of the system "CRANKCASE-VENTILATION/OIL SEPARATOR", found under ENGINE -> CYLINDER HEAD from the BMW dealership. Pelican also carries a duplicate part which can be requested by the same name. Note: that part carries that same name and position on BMW motors from the M52TU through the M54 generation and variants.

The part is somewhat larger than typical PCV valves but performs a similar function. It is made of black plastic and is found to the U.S. driver's side of the motor (LHD cars, i.e. your right-hand side while facing the motor from the front). It is attached by four vacuum hoses and two bolts.


There's another discussion and some pics here as well - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12142436

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#1197292 - 07/19/08 10:17 AM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jpr]
JAG Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4518
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Awesome. Thank you very much! It sounds like it is a hybrid PCV-Catch Can.

BTW, yesterday I ordered a BMW 135i and will get it in late August! Making sure I don't let the motor oil take a sheit in the engine will be a big learning experience! As you likely know, this engine is a direct-injected (fuel-diluting), twin turbo engine with a propensity toward high oil temperatures. How BMW thinks this engine can do the same OCIs (reaching same level of oil degradation) as their other engines is beyond me.

Does your dealer sell the BMW HP oil? How much? My dealer said they put in Mobil 1 (0W-40 most likely) during oil change service. That's odd, I think.
_________________________
2003 VW GTI 1.8T 20th Anniversary Edition

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#1197295 - 07/19/08 10:23 AM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: JAG]
jpr Offline


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 383
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Originally Posted By: JAG
Awesome. Thank you very much! It sounds like it is a hybrid PCV-Catch Can.

BTW, yesterday I ordered a BMW 135i and will get it in late August! Making sure I don't let the motor oil take a sheit in the engine will be a big learning experience! As you likely know, this engine is a direct-injected (fuel-diluting), twin turbo engine with a propensity toward high oil temperatures. How BMW thinks this engine can do the same OCIs (reaching same level of oil degradation) as their other engines is beyond me.

That 135i sure sounds like fun! Undoubtedly you'll be doing a few UOA's early on until you establish a comfort level.

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#1197379 - 07/19/08 12:25 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jpr]
JAG Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4518
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Yes the car is amazing. I've recently driven the new M3, M5, and M6 on the track at the BMW M School in Spartanburg, South Carolina. All 3 are great with my favorite of the 3 being the M3. When I test drove the 135i, it did not feel out of the league that the new M3 is in (M3 is faster, but still...). The 135i has a beautiful engine and exhaust note too. The exhaust note even burbles at idle.

The M School instructors who are also professional race car drivers love the 135i. They said there is no need for an M1 now. They raced the 135i against the M5 and the only place on the track where the M5 could pull away was on the long straight. At high speeds, the 500 HP in the M5 overcomes air drag better than the 300+ HP in the 135i, vehicle mass be dam_ned. Of course the Dinan computer chip added to the 135i could change that significantly.

Anyhow, yeah I will have to do some UOAs. I just can't find many UOAs on the engine shared by the 135i, 335i, and that 5 Series model. I have seen 1 or 2 and they weren't pretty.

You replied so quickly that you missed the question I added in an edit to my above post. :) Here it is: Does your dealer sell the BMW HP oil? How much? My dealer said they put in Mobil 1 (0W-40 most likely) during oil change service. That's odd, I think.

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#1197387 - 07/19/08 12:44 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: JAG]
jpr Offline


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 383
Loc: San Diego, CA
It does seem odd that a dealer would claim to use M1 rather than the BMW oil, but dealerships have been known to say some pretty odd things...

I've never bought the BMW oil other than as part of an oil change service. About the best deal on it I've seen is through Tischer BMW where you can get 7 qts plus a filter for $53 including shipping - http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/i...&catalogid=4462

The oil I have purchased for my car was the Total Quartz Energy 9000 0W-30. I paid $47.52 for 7 qts plus $4.20 for a Mahle filter. Shipping was also free, but this was part of a largish order I made so I do not know if that will always be the case. I purchased this from KO Performance, which has some great prices but rather flakey delivery -

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#1197455 - 07/19/08 03:14 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jpr]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9088
Loc: PA
Opinions notwithstanding, I get the impression that the Mobil 1 0w-40 is a significantly more sophisticated lube than the BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30. It has quite an impressive list of approvals, and is manufacturer-specced for an equally impressive list of cars (Nissan GT-R, Porsche Carrera GT, etc.). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, given that Mobil 1 0w-40 has the right BMW approvals, and also given that almost all BMW engines can run 40-weights without a problem, I'm not surprised at all that a BMW dealership would use it.

Given the choice, I'd still run the BMW stuff in my engine. It's got a decent dose of moly and offers very good protection with relatively low viscosity. But I wouldn't feel bad with the Mobil 1.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#1197512 - 07/19/08 05:48 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jpr]
m6pwr Offline


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 180
Loc: San Diego, CA
jpr: How do you like the Total Quartz 9000 0w-30 so far? It's one of the few synthetics I've found in the 0/5w-30 class that is made from Group IV PAO base stock, according to its MSDS. I sent a sample off to Blackstone to get a VOA and will post the results when I get them.

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#1197526 - 07/19/08 06:13 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: m6pwr]
jpr Offline


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 383
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Originally Posted By: m6pwr
jpr: How do you like the Total Quartz 9000 0w-30 so far? It's one of the few synthetics I've found in the 0/5w-30 class that is made from Group IV PAO base stock, according to its MSDS. I sent a sample off to Blackstone to get a VOA and will post the results when I get them.
With only about 5k on the current fill of BMW oil, I haven't used it yet. So I can only comment on how excellent the 2 bottles and 5 liter jug look sitting on my workbench. They are a very attractive grey color and have an appealling techno-euro look to them. Curiously enough, the spout on the 1 liter bottles is on the right but on the the 5 liter it is on the left when looking at the bottles front label.

Thanks for sending in the VOA sample. I was thinking of doing the same thing with the leftovers from when I do use it, but you have beaten me to it.

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#1198913 - 07/21/08 08:03 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jpr]
jesbo Offline


Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: Virginia
I am duly impressed by those pics. Clearly the BMW HP oil has a very effective detergent package in it, and it holds up to the extended change intervals. Unusual to see an engine with that much mileage in such pristine condition. I've seen some pics of BMW engines on the e60 forums with less mileage where the sludge was so thick you couldn't tell the sludge from the parts.

Is your driving a typical mix of city and highway? Or perhaps more highway focused?

Thanks for posting this info.

JS


Edited by jesbo (07/21/08 08:04 PM)
_________________________
'08 BMW 535i....... N54 TT Engine (GC 0w30 or BMW 5w30 Synth.)
'08 VOLVO XC/70... 3.2L NA Engine (Castrol Edge 5w30)

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#1199164 - 07/22/08 07:44 AM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jesbo]
Cutehumor Offline


Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 8942
Loc: USA
7 oil changes in 9 years? the pics are awesome wow!
_________________________
The end time is now

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#1199604 - 07/22/08 07:06 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: Cutehumor]
jpr Offline


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 383
Loc: San Diego, CA
I'm a fairly moderate driver (most of the time) as I enjoy the car more for its handling than its drag racing potential. I typically run the car in the 2500 to 4000 rpm range where redline is at 6500.

In the early years with the car it had a few road trips, but for the last few years it has mainly just done commuting duty for me. It's about 16 mile one way trip, a a little more than half of which is on the freeway at about 75~80 mph.

I would have lost money on a bet regarding what I'd find under the valve cover. Of course I think most members here would have as well given the ~15k-ish OCI's at up to 25 months apart.

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#1199757 - 07/22/08 10:34 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jpr]
jesbo Offline


Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: jpr
I would have lost money on a bet regarding what I'd find under the valve cover. Of course I think most members here would have as well given the ~15k-ish OCI's at up to 25 months apart.


I'd have been digging into my pockets for sure. I had a '98 Volvo S70 with 100K miles which ran Mobil-1 its entire life with Oil Changes approx every 7-8K miles. Although I never pulled the valve cover off, I could clearly see inside with a flashlight, and aside from some light amber color, the parts were all clean as a whistle.

Based on my own experience, I was reluctant to believe the BMW HP oil could be better than Mobil-1, but after a lot of research, I now realize that the BMW HP is probably a true Group IV PAO based Synthetic and the Mobil-1 I was using most likely is not (I was not using the European Formula 0W-40 M1).

So much for my rambling. So bottom line, I'll be using the BMW HP oil or the German-Made Castrol after seeing your results. My driving style is very similar to yours.
_________________________
'08 BMW 535i....... N54 TT Engine (GC 0w30 or BMW 5w30 Synth.)
'08 VOLVO XC/70... 3.2L NA Engine (Castrol Edge 5w30)

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#1200336 - 07/23/08 07:29 PM Re: BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2 [Re: jesbo]
jpr Offline


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 383
Loc: San Diego, CA
Hmmm - I was under the impression that the BMW oil was a Group III. Regardless of type though, it seems to be working pretty darn well.

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