MOBIL1 0W-40 vs. CASTROL EDGE 0W-40

[LexusAussie]

Edge is a good oil as is Mobil 1. Magnatec is a good Dino oil (10W40)(I'm sure Doug will disagree and say it is a Semi Synthetic ;o))I used the Magnatec myself for nearly 7 years and have no issues with it. My only reason for changing is that it doesn't come in recommended Viscosity Range for my Lexus. No experience with the Super S.

I would say you can't really go wrong with either Edge, M1 or the Magnatec as long as the viscosity range is what you need.

You may also wish to consider an oil from Elf. The Excellium range has had good reviews on various forums. An earlier poster also suggested this.

 

[LexusAussie]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Dave - You said;

"Magnatec is a conventional dino oil (semi-synth at best)"

I reacted to that as it was wrong!

I only want the facts out on Topics and that is why I will not contribute unless I can back up my statements!


Doug, I'm awaiting the proof. Castrol's own material appears to back me up notwithstanding your beliefs.

The killer for me was your comment that "For us as users there is probably a much simpler explantion - Group 3 lubricants are the "semi" or "part" synthetics. Group 4, 5 and 6 are the "synthetics".

The only Group III lubricants in the current Magnatec range is the Magnatec Professional which the Castrol Tech Line acknowledged was Group III. Standard Magnatec is not a Group III. Castrol still have the hide to market the Magnatec Professional as a "Full Synthetic" (which it is not as acknowledged by their Tech Line).

It's time for you to put up hard evidence! More than happy to be proven wrong but I want to see hard evidence.

Come on Doug! Share!

 

[LexusAussie]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
I will provide scanned data to you if you PM me your e-mail address. It will be from the 1998-9 and 2001-2 Castrol Lube Guides


Doug,

For some reason, part of your earlier post didn't show up on my screen. I didn't mean to leave it out. My apologies.

Great offer but I'm looking for current evidence as the current publications from Castrol simply don't state that Magnatec is a Synthetic Oil.

The TDS for Magnatec can be accessed via this link:

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf\5052_Castrol_Magnatec_10W40_119369_2006_10.pdf

Please understand, based on the content stated in Wikipedia a Synthetic Oil must be Groups IV,V or VI. A Semi Synthetic Oil can have a Group II or III base with no more than 30% Group IV, V or VI. Only Americans regard Group III as Synthetic. You and I are Aussie's.

If you can provide an extract from the Castrol Tech Line advising what the Base Oil is (ie Group II or III) and what Group the "Synthetic" potion of the oil is (ie Group IV) hat will more than suffice.

 

[Johnny]

Dave, I really love reading these debates between you and Doug, highly respect both of you, but I have to ask you, do you really make decisions based off what you read on Wikipedia? The way that system is set up, we could go in there and tell you Group IV was made from maple syrup.

Oh, and speaking to what Americans regard, BMW is not a Chevy.

 

[SpeedyMan]

Originally Posted By: LexusAussie
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
I will provide scanned data to you if you PM me your e-mail address. It will be from the 1998-9 and 2001-2 Castrol Lube Guides


Doug,

For some reason, part of your earlier post didn't show up on my screen. I didn't mean to leave it out. My apologies.

Great offer but I'm looking for current evidence as the current publications from Castrol simply don't state that Magnatec is a Synthetic Oil.

The TDS for Magnatec can be accessed via this link:

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf\5052_Castrol_Magnatec_10W40_119369_2006_10.pdf

Please understand, based on the content stated in Wikipedia a Synthetic Oil must be Groups IV,V or VI. A Semi Synthetic Oil can have a Group II or III base with no more than 30% Group IV, V or VI. Only Americans regard Group III as Synthetic. You and I are Aussie's.

If you can provide an extract from the Castrol Tech Line advising what the Base Oil is (ie Group II or III) and what Group the "Synthetic" potion of the oil is (ie Group IV) hat will more than suffice.


Well... if this is so - then according to my "smell" theory MAGNATEC should be Group II base oil + < 30% Group IV/V/VI and SUPER S should be Group III base oil + < 30% Group IV/V/VI.
Anyone who can check the truth of this statement?
It is really interesting for me..

 

[LexusAussie]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
Dave, I really love reading these debates between you and Doug, highly respect both of you, but I have to ask you, do you really make decisions based off what you read on Wikipedia? The way that system is set up, we could go in there and tell you Group IV was made from maple syrup.

Oh, and speaking to what Americans regard, BMW is not a Chevy.

Wikipedia is useful to define a common frame of reference and I have actually found it to be quite accurate. The internet is full of anal people like myself who will ensure it stays up to date and accurate!

I chose the BMW Chevy comparison in my signature as it is a reference that most Americans would understand. They are the German equivalent of Holdens (thats Saturns to you) actually when it comes to quality

I had a very bad experience with a BMW and loathe the entire brand with a passion.

Equally, I loathe marketing departments who have, particularly in recent years, gone from "stretching the truth" about products (such as oils) to downright lies. If Castrol Australia are calling a Group III (Magnatec Professional) a "Full Synthetic" what other lies are they spouting about the standard Magnatec. Their marketing material is couched in terms that are open to interpretation. That's obfuscation, not marketing.

Some of what Doug and I are disagreeing about is semantics. When I first experienced Magnatec in 1999, it wasn't available for retail sale until 2000 (it was available to Dealers only). I consequently made numerous enquiries of both Lexus Australia and Castrol's Technical people who informed me that it was an "enhanced conventional oil" and then proceeded to send me 5 litre's of the stuff for top ups (in an unmarked bottle - seriously!). I used this oil for 7 years and believe that it is a high quality oil. It is not however a Synthetic Oil if it's base stock is Group III or a Semi-Synthetic if the Synthetic portion of the oil is Group III.

The whole "Group III can be called Synthetic oil" is a US centric issue only. It is a legal defnition only and doesn't change the fact that Group III are highly refined Dino oils - they are not Synthetic.

I'm looking forward to Doug's reply and hopefully providing clarification either way. He is an honest man with good connections in Castrol, ExxonMobil and Shell and should be able to bypass the typical marketing s#ite (even if he does love their products a little too much!

)

 

[SpeedyMan]

Dave, why do you hate BMW? Did you have the "Nikasil problem" or what?

Hope to see you soon in the Audi Owner Club

 

[LexusAussie]

My German Holden "failed to proceed" on more occasions than it actually "proceeded". I may as well have purchased a taxi I spent so much time in one. Electrical problems. BMW didn't care and all the Dealer did was charge me big $$$ NOT to fix it.

Traded it in on an Audi. Was very happy with the Audi but then I disovered Lexus. I'm now on my 3rd Lexus.

 

[d00df00d]

Interesting. My BMW is treating me better at 145,000 miles than any car my family has ever owned to that mileage, including Hondas -- and *my* horrible experiences have been with Lexus SUVs, which I am now convinced are among the most dangerous vehicles on the road.

Oh well.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Dave - I have reviewed all of my Posts in this Thread which arose as a response from your incorrect comment:

"Magnatec is a conventional dino oil (semi-synth at best)"

I provided a history of Magnatec from Castrol's own Lubrication Reference Guide(s) - 1998-9 and 2001-2

I am sorry that you rejected my offer to provide you with hard (factual) copies

As for your comments about BMW well you are entitled to your opinion of course. I owned a BMW Z3 2.8 for some years and about 50kkms, it was trouble free. My fiend has had a 323 for 10 trouble free years. Another friend is a Sales Manager for BMW in NZ and has had his own trouble free BMW cars for over 20 years - I could relate many such stories
Denigrating a vehicle Brand is at best adventurous IMHO and produces little to this Forum or this thread!

The German "Holden" is of course Opel who also make excellent cars. The Rekord was the foundation for the Commodore. All subsequent Holdens in that "category" have there foundations in Germany. The Opel range have always been very good vehicles - well since 1962 that I can comment on.
I purchased a Calibra new many years ago in OZ and was delighted with it too!

BMW make a number of top quality vehicles that have an excellent reputation

Oh and Dave personal denigration does not add to this Forum

My offer to provide you the "hard facts" on Castrol's Magnatec origins as Castrol saw it then still stands!!!

 

[SpeedyMan]

Opels are not excellent. Just ordinary cars
BMW-s too. The NIKASIL issue is a big bother if it happens to disappear due to the sulphur in the petrol.
And of course they are summer-cars, do not count on them in winter snow ( just the X badged are OK)

 

[LexusAussie]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Dave - I have reviewed all of my Posts in this Thread which arose as a response from your incorrect comment:

"Magnatec is a conventional dino oil (semi-synth at best)"

I provided a history of Magnatec from Castrol's own Lubrication Reference Guide(s) - 1998-9 and 2001-2
My comments are not incorrect. You have not provided ANY evidence to the contrary.

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
I am sorry that you rejected my offer to provide you with hard (factual) copies
Informtion that is 6 years old is not relevant. I thanked you for your offer and requested that you provide current evidence. That is not an unreasonable request.

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
As for your comments about BMW well you are entitled to your opinion of course. I owned a BMW Z3 2.8 for some years and about 50kkms, it was trouble free. My fiend has had a 323 for 10 trouble free years. Another friend is a Sales Manager for BMW in NZ and has had his own trouble free BMW cars for over 20 years - I could relate many such stories
Denigrating a vehicle Brand is at best adventurous IMHO and produces little to this Forum or this thread!

The German "Holden" is of course Opel who also make excellent cars. The Rekord was the foundation for the Commodore. All subsequent Holdens in that "category" have there foundations in Germany. The Opel range have always been very good vehicles - well since 1962 that I can comment on.
I purchased a Calibra new many years ago in OZ and was delighted with it too!
I relayed my personal experience with a Brand.

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
BMW make a number of top quality vehicles that have an excellent reputation
Check JD Power Quality Surveys.

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Oh and Dave personal denigration does not add to this Forum

My offer to provide you the "hard facts" on Castrol's Magnatec origins as Castrol saw it then still stands!!!
There has been no personal denigration of anyone other than you bristling every time someone dares to challenge the "facts" that you present when it involves one of your personal favourites that you admit you have had a long term relationship with.

Again, I request that you provide current hard facts to back up your comments. In the absence of same, I can only assume that you have no such hard evidence.

Doug, I respect your views and opinions however you need to learn to do the same with other members of this forum. Forums are about bringing the views and opinions of different people with different world experiences together for the benefit of all.

If you are unable to do that, that would be a loss to this forum.

 

[LexusAussie]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Interesting. My BMW is treating me better at 145,000 miles than any car my family has ever owned to that mileage, including Hondas -- and *my* horrible experiences have been with Lexus SUVs, which I am now convinced are among the most dangerous vehicles on the road.

Oh well.


Just goes to show that everyone has different experiences and forms their own opinions based on those experiences. I know others that have had issues with Lexus (in the US at least) but I haven't had an issue in 3 vehicles. My Audi was similarly trouble free.

 

[d00df00d]

Exactly. The difference usually lies in what people do with those opinions, e.g. relating stories when they are relevant vs. parading sweeping simplistic statements in a forum signature and then beating people over the head with them.

Glad we agree.

 

[LexusAussie]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Exactly. The difference usually lies in what people do with those opinions, e.g. relating stories when they are relevant vs. parading sweeping simplistic statements in a forum signature and then beating people over the head with them.

Glad we agree.


Just goes to show the extent of my disatisfaction with them!

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Dave - Well going by your comments I must consider whether I should contribute further to BITOG or not. It is noted that you joined BITOG in 2008 - I joined in 2003!

I'll carefully consider your advice and thank you!

As for Castrol's Magnatec my details previously provided here in this Thread are accurate. Today's range of Castol Magnatec lubricants go from semi-sythetic to synthetic formulations.
I don't need Wikipedia to tell me about formulations and the like as I deal with the people who blend, merchandise and "after service" the products
The base fluids used within todays "Magnatec" range go from Group 2 upwards to Group 5 and in various concentrations on the way to the finished product
This was confirmed to me today by a Senior Engineer at Castrol some hours ago. This person was once an employee of mine, we worked together on the Castrol Enduro LD HDEO I mentioned earlier. We were also both employed at Daimler Benz on Truck Technologies. He has been an employee of Castrol for over 20 years and a friend for 30 or so years!

My offer of hard copies of some extracts from Castrol's Lubrication Reference Guides still stands - just provide me your e-mail address

In the meantime and as I said earlier "I'll carefully consider your advice and thank you!"

 

[sprintman]

I'll wade in here. The lack of BMW engineering integrity has been astonishing. BUT after much research realised BMW owners trust the stealership to maintain the vehicle to perfection. they don't because they do not have the equipment specialty shops have. My 325 CI has been dealer serviced since new. After purchase I knew it wasn't right. Started at the suspension speciaist. They have a lift you drive your car on that then shakes violently and they can see suspension components under road conditions, no BMW dealer can do that. Result ball joints totally shot in less than 70,00kms, new front lower control arms. Rear sway bar link shot. new link etc. Engine drive belts so badly cracked it's a wonder they were in one piece. Disk rotors below minimum allowable thickness, new rotors and pads, wiper blades changed to non OEM product, electric window switches so worn in the hinge it's a wonder it didn't fall out and I could go on for ever. Don't even get me started on the farcical 'lifetime fill' g'box and diff fluids. Geting into first was almost impossible and changing to second itbaulked every time. I've reealised BMW dealer service is for owners who weant to get through the warranty/lease period and palm it off to some poor b@stard. 74,000kms on board and the car is a mechanical basket case. Just love that dealer 'service'

 

[sprintman]

I'll wade in here. The lack of BMW engineering integrity has been astonishing. BUT after much research realised BMW owners trust the stealership to maintain the vehicle to perfection. they don't because they do not have the equipment specialty shops have. My 325 CI has been dealer serviced since new. After purchase I knew it wasn't right. Started at the suspension speciaist. They have a lift you drive your car on that then shakes violently and they can see suspension components under road conditions, no BMW dealer can do that. Result ball joints totally shot in less than 70,00kms, new front lower control arms. Rear sway bar link shot. new link etc. Engine drive belts so badly cracked it's a wonder they were in one piece. Disk rotors below minimum allowable thickness, new rotors and pads, wiper blades changed to non OEM product, electric window switches so worn in the hinge it's a wonder it didn't fall out and I could go on for ever. Don't even get me started on the farcical 'lifetime fill' g'box and diff fluids. Geting into first was almost impossible and changing to second itbaulked every time. I've reealised BMW dealer service is for owners who weant to get through the warranty/lease period and palm it off to some poor b@stard. 74,000kms on board and the car is a mechanical basket case. Just love that dealer 'service'

 

[Shannow]

sprint, when I worked with Peter 20something years ago, he was pretty good on the European stuff.

http://www.carcarecentre.com.au/

 

[LexusAussie]

Before proceeding further, I wish to apologise to the Forum on behalf of both Doug and myself. We have highjacked this thread. Our intent is good though.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Dave - Well going by your comments I must consider whether I should contribute further to BITOG or not.
I strongly desire that you remain a member and continue to post. You have much knowledge to share. My only points are that you are quick to bristle when someone challenges your recommendations for a Castrol, ExxonMobil or Shell product. You also are quick to challenge other members (particularly anyone connected with AMSoil)to provide factual evidence of their claims. If you are going to do this, you should expect this in return and be prepared to "Stump Up". Fair is fair.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
It is noted that you joined BITOG in 2008 - I joined in 2003!
In what way is this germaine to the discussion? Does this mean that no one is allowed to question your "facts" simply because you have been a member longer than me? I am not intimidated if that was your objective (and I hope it wasn't). Longevity of membership on a Forum is not a criteria for knowledge. I'm considered an expert in my field and I am more than happy to listen to views etc from others. Everyone has something to contribute and different perspectives keep us from becoming complacent.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
I'll carefully consider your advice and thank you!
You are most welcome
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
As for Castrol's Magnatec my details previously provided here in this Thread are accurate. Today's range of Castol Magnatec lubricants go from semi-sythetic to synthetic formulations.
We were discussing Castrol Magnatec not "the range of Castrol Magnatec lubricants". I’m confused Doug. You have made a number of statements that contradict themselves:

In response to a question from Speedyman about Magnatec, I made the following statement "Magnatec is a conventional dino oil (semi-synth at best)", you then advised that I was incorrect! When I made the further statement about Magnatec "It's a good product but not a synthetic oil." You then responded that I was incorrect! Which is it Doug? Semi-Synthetic or Synthetic? Magnatec can’t be both.

Castrol Magnatec is NOT a Group III oil. I have already posted an email from Castrol confirming that their Castrol Magnatec Professional is a Group III oil. Group III oils are NOT Synthetic, they are highly refined Mineral Oils (ie Conventional Oils). The “Synthetic” definition is legal garbage and ONLY applies in the USA. Speedyman is from Europe!

In response to another question from Speedyman on the definitions of Semi-Synthetic, Synthetic and Synthetic Technology, you made the statement "Group 3 lubricants are the "semi" or "part" synthetics. Group 4, 5 and 6 are the "synthetics". Again, Group III oils are Highly Refined Mineral Oils and are not “Semi-Synthetic” as you have stated. In connection with Castrol Magnatec, Magnatec is NOT a Group III oil anyway so it can’t be Semi-Synthetic under your definition above! This is further borne out by your latest comments “The base fluids used within todays "Magnatec" range go from Group 2 upwards to Group 5 and in various concentrations on the way to the finished product.

So where does this leave us? We have your version of what constitutes a Semi-Synthetic oil (a Group III oil – again Magnatec is NOT a Group III oil and this is borne out by your comments regarding base fluids) and we have the correct definition of a Semi Synthetic oil to wit ”a blend of mineral oil with no more than 30% synthetic oil”. In other words a Group II or III oil mixed with no more than 30% Group 4,5 or 6.

This (seemingly never ending) discussion is whether Castrol Magnatec meets the definition of a Semi-Synthetic, not whether it meets your definition of Semi-Synthetic (ie Group III) as defined above. I have already stated it is a Semi-Synthetic at best on the formal definition of Semi-Synthetic. In what way am I incorrect?

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
I don't need Wikipedia to tell me about formulations and the like as I deal with the people who blend, merchandise and "after service" the products
Not a good defense. Wikipedia is a widely acknowledged reference source used around the world and maintained by volunteers (many of whom are experts in their fields). You cannot just discount what it states simply because you think you know better. Your opinion is not a Fact, it is an opinion.

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
This was confirmed to me today by a Senior Engineer at Castrol some hours ago. This person was once an employee of mine, we worked together on the Castrol Enduro LD HDEO I mentioned earlier. We were also both employed at Daimler Benz on Truck Technologies. He has been an employee of Castrol for over 20 years and a friend for 30 or so years!
Interesting story but not relevant to the discussion. While you were speaking with this person you should have asked him for documented evidence as to the Base Oil used in Magnatec (Grouping and % of other oil groups in the Blend).

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
My offer of hard copies of some extracts from Castrol's Lubrication Reference Guides still stands - just provide me your e-mail address
This is where we appear to have a failure to communicate. I am asking that you publish your evidence in this thread, not send it to me. It also needs to be current and not from the 1990’s or early 2000’s. If you don't know how to post this information, PM me and I will assist.

As I have said a few times, I am happy to be proven wrong however you have not done so. You have made several contradictory statements and all I am looking for is to back them up with hard current facts. If you are not willing or are unable to provide evidence to back up your statements (current evidence that is), then please withdraw your statements and we can move on.

I am more than happy to mail Castrol Technical Support and obtain the necessary information and publish same if it will enable us to get off this merry go round and move onto something more profitable for all of us.

Can we please get this sorted out without further obfuscation?