Grant Cunningham was right I think.

[Mystic]

I have done a study of a sort about lubricants for handguns. Somebody a while back here posted an article written by a Grant Cunningham. He suggested Dextron III ATF for a lubricating oil for guns and aluminum base food grease for a weapons grease. Well, I think he knew what he was talking about.

ATF is far better than any gun oil I have ever tried. It probably could be used by itself if you put new lubricate on the gun every 50 rounds or so. It is much cheaper than any gun oil I know of and seems to prevent wear better than any gun oil. It even seems like the gun is easier to clean after shooting a lot of rounds than when using gun oil. ATF has antiwear and extreme presure additives that a lot of gun oils probably do not have. And no weird and potentially dangerous clorinated compounds. A quart will last forever unless you have a huge number of guns. I think I have found my gun oil.

I had thought the ATF would be unacceptable to me because of the smell. But actually it is not bad. I don't notice the small amount on a gun.

The easy flowing food grease is great also. I put a little on a few critical places. It stays put. If you lubricate your gun frequently (right before shooting and every 50 rounds) maybe you don't need the food grease. But I still put a little in a few places. The grease I guy actually recommended is not readily available unless you buy it in a large amount but the slightly thicker Lubriplate food grease is available in 14 ounce cartridges (which should also last a long time).

Hard to believe I searched all those years for a quality gun oil and the answer was as close as a store that sells ATF.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Mystic where have you been that you have not heard of "Ed's Red" which is ATF+acetone as a cleaner/lubricant.Personely I like to add some Crysilic Acid with my ATF and acetone.LOL I do not do that anymore by the way. I also tried M1 15W50 Red Cap thined with B12 Chemtool. Neverhad any problems but Molakules told me it was not a great idea so I stoped! Now I butch's bore shine and Kyroil mixed 50/50 for cleaning and I use BreakFree CLP for my lub/preservative and call it good!

 

[Mystic]

Thanks for the reply. I have heard of Ed's Red and I thought about mixing some up but never got around to it. Actually JohnBrowning I think all you really need is the ATF. I did think about using Ed's Red from timt to time but I never really considered using ATF by itself until I read that article that was posted here which was written by this Grant Cunningham guy.

Even though I have been around a lot of transmissions and a lot of transmission fluid I don't really like the smell of the stuff. But a little on a gun does not really seem very noticeable.

My guess is a guy could use just the ATF on a gun as long as he lubricated the gun right before shooting and every 50 rounds or so. Because oil can flow off a gun. I am not completely sure you even need the grease although a little in a few critical areas probably does not hurt. Since I have been using the combination of ATF and food grease I have not noticed any additional wear on my gun. And I shoot a lot of rounds. I wish I had started using this combination when I bought my Glock new.

 

[chevrofreak]

Sorry but nothing with the acronym ATF will ever be allowed near any of my guns

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Sorry but nothing with the acronym ATF will ever be allowed near any of my guns

+1

ATF does not contain any EP additives and contains less AW than motor oil.

What brand/product are you using?

 

[Mystic]

I used Pennzoil automatic transmission fluid. I am using Lubriplate grease. I always liked Lubriplate products but in recent years the Lubriplate stuff has become hard to find. Does the Lubriplate grease have AW/EP additives?

Now as far as I can determine Glock armorers use Breakfree. I tried Breakfree twice with my SIG and the gun seemed to want to jam with the Breakfree. I have not tried Breakfree with the Glock.

Grease by itself can work also. It has to be able to flow well in the cold and not slow down the action of the slide. Like I have said here before I know a range instructor who uses wheel bearing grease on his SIG. He has put thousands of rounds through that gun and it still looks almost new. Wilson of Wilson Combat recommends grease (his own) except in very cold temperatures. I have two videos from Wilson Combat-one video for the SIG and the other for the Glock.

If somebody does not shoot a gun much I don't think you are going to notice much of a difference regardless if you use RemOil, Hoppes, Breakfree or whatever. But put thousands of rounds through a gun and see what happens. At a really important shoot I can shoot quite a few rounds.

One thing I don't want to mess around with is any clorinated junk. I would rather have the gun wear out than get cancer. I can always buy another gun.

Gun oil is incredibly expensive when you consider how much you pay for a tiny bottle. Which gun oil has real AW/EP additives and no clorinated junk?

I would like to hear from anybody concerning why it is NOT a good idea to use automatic transmission fluid and grease on a gun.

I would also like to hear from anybody who knows of a gun oil that has the necessary AW/EP additives without any clorinated junk.

 

[chevrofreak]

If you want AW and EP and can tolerate the smell, gear oil works great. I often use 75W-140 synthetic gear oil in my guns as a middle ground between grease and the thinner gun oils. It doesn't smell great, but it's very slick stuff. I put some on a friends 1911 and he immediately commented that he'd never felt the slide move that smoothly.

I have no idea if it's chlorinated or not.

 

[Tempest]

Pretty much any commercial gear lube will not have chlorine but it will have sulphur and Phos. Worse than long chain chlorine health wise? Don't know but I doubt it.

Quote:
Which gun oil has real AW/EP additives and no chlorinated junk?

None that I know of. Long chain chlorine EP is not considered anymore toxic than other additives to the best of my knowledge. Used ZDDP is pretty nasty by itself.

If you have some of the Jardine's grease I would use that as you would be hard pressed to find a better gun grease.

If the ATF is working for you use it. I'm not sure why you have such an aversion to modern chlor EP.

 

[SteveD2]

All I have ever used to lubricate my firearms is Mobil 1 Motor Oil, ATF, (Automatic Transmission Fluid), and for very high pressure friction points like bolt lugs on bolt action rifles and hinge pins on O/U shotguns I use a small amount of STP. I have never had a a gun rust or fail because of a lubrication issue in over 35 years. Gun oils and greases are overpriced "snake oils" in fancy packaging, nothing more. Know what your getting when you spend $8.00 for a bottle of "Castrol / Hoppes Synthetic Gun Oil"? Castrol Syntec Motor Oil. You can buy it all day for around $2.50 @ quart, or pay $8.00 for 4 ounces of it in a fancy brushed Aluminum pump bottle. Same with a lot of these "Gun Greases". Go into any auto parts store and you can buy a large tube of Moly Grease that will last the average shooter a lifetime for a couple of bucks. It's as good, or better than these miracle gun greases they sell for over $10.00 for a 1/4 ounce! If you like the fancy hypo type applicator, you can get one at Walgreens, or most any other drug store for around .25 to .50 cents, and it's refillable too boot. Mobil 1 can be tailored to your climate just as you would if you used it in your car. If you shoot or hunt in very frigid climate it comes in a 0W-20 grade that won't stiffen up in cold weather. Here in Arizona we don't get much cold weather, but in the Summer it can get blistering hot so I use the 20W-50 grade. It has a nice viscosity that won't run off metal and dry up in a few days like some of these water thin gun oils like "Rem-Oil" will. ATF is a very clean non gumming lubricant that works well for lubricating semi autos and fast moving parts like slides and even trigger mechanisms. All 3 of these products can be purchased at any auto parts store for around $10.00, and will last the average shooter for years. I won't overpay for these gun lubes that do nothing better except make you poorer. Bill T.

 

[Tempest]

I generally agree with you that most of the gun oils and greases on the market are just overpriced rebrandings. I do believe that there are a few exceptions to that. Lubing a gun and lubing an engine are 2 different things.

Motor oils use low solvent base oils to prevent long term oxidation. A gun oil is not used for such long periods and a high solvent base oil is desirable for it's cleaning action while the gun is being fired, as well as use as a CLP. High solvent base oils also tend to have stronger films.
Motor oils do not use EP additives since hydrodynamic lubrication dominates and those additives do not deal well the heat over long periods. Guns see nothing but sliding/boundary conditions so EP is import to reduce friction and protect the metal from sliding/galling. Easy cleaning seems to be a side benefit, at least with the chlor stuff.

Does any of this really matter to an occasionally shot and well maintained gun? No, but it is nice to know the protection is there.

I think Weapon Shield and the Jardine's grease stand out for use on weapons and both are designed by lube engineers that are also shooters.

 

[Mystic]

I don't have all the answers and I am not a lubrication expert. All I have is my observations and my willingness to try something and see how it works. I think my observations are worth something.

I have tried all kinds of gun oils. Most gun oils will work fine if a person shoots only occasionally. Your hunting rifle would last many years with just about any gun oil if you shot it only a few times during hunting season and cleaned and stored it properly.

But if you shoot a gun a lot I think you need some quality lubrication. I try to maintain my Dad's old shotgun and my Dad's old .22 rifle the best I can, but I don't worry too much about using some kind of super lubrication on them. They are of value to me to remember my Dad.

My Glock handgun is shot a lot. I want for it to last a long time. RemOil is not going to cut it if you are doing a lot of shooting. I don't mind RemOil for cleaning but not for lubricating a gun before shooting a lot of rounds. I have owned my Glock only a couple of years and I have probably already put a few thousand rounds through it. You have to practice to stay good and I shoot a lot of rounds in practice and a lot of rounds in important shoots.

I think the Jardine's grease is good. I am getting what seems like good results using the light food grease that flows easily even in low temperatures. I try to be as fair and honest in my observations as I can be. It does not do me any good to lie to myself. One thing that really surprised me using automatic transmission fluid as a gun oil was that my Glock seemed to be easier to clean. I don't know why. Maybe these gun oils burn up a little while you shoot. One day I shot more rounds at one time than I should have and I was really surprised how easy the gun was to clean that day. I think a semi-auto really needs some sort of light grease that will flow easily even in the cold. I have never owned a revolver so I can't comment on revolvers. I have shot quite a few but never owned one.

I have talked to a few people who were involved in major competition. One guy told me that when he was competing he was using a very light, easily flowing grease on his handgun. I know a range instructor who uses wheel bearing grease on his SIG.

I like the combination of the ATF as a gun oil and just a little food grease in critical places. It really seems to work well. If you lube your gun before going shooting and if you lube your gun after every 50 rounds or so ATF by itself might work well.

These are my honest observations. Like I said I am not going to lie to myself. For many years I was satisfied with various gun cleaners but I hated just about every gun oil I tried. In my honest opinion the typical gun oil is a waste of money. A person needs to find something else.