Honda PSF UOA

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youdontwannaknow

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This just in.
Unfortunately I dont have a way to tell really "how many miles on oil". and so I dont understand how many miles those "universal averages" are for either.

But lets take a look at this "honda" oil -

Viscosity's right on the border of a 20/30 weight.
Its loaded with Zn, P and Mg.
Pretty high Ca too.

Now for the wear metals -

What do you guys think about the fact that Cu is high yet no other metals show much wear ? Whats that supposed to mean ?
Actually its funny because when I took the sample the smell sort of reminded of a "burnt/overheated transformer or coil or wire" (duh, copper!).


ScreenHunter_02Jul081629.jpg
 
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Good posting on a system not usually looked at, I was thinking of putting up a couple more PSF UOA's over the next few days. Does Honda use a specific PSF or an ATF?
 
Dale,
Honda uses a specific PSF. Molakule, when SF was still up & running, didn't recommend his standard (if you can bring any of his stuff down to that level) fare in their systems either.

Please do post some PSF UOAs if you have them. The more data the better.

ydwk,

Just to be clear, the only fluid the PS system has ever seen is Honda PSF? How many times has it been changed? How much at each change? Any filter/cooler?

Ignore their universal averages column, always. It is worse that meaningless b/c one may draw conclusions from it when there are none (accurate or worthwhile at least) that can be drawn.
Thank you for doing this UOA. I'm about to change out 12 oz again (3rd time) at 90k miles in my '02 Accord.
 
yep Honda specific PSF, just like all their other fluids. They'd make a "HG" (honda genuine - whatever thats supposed to mean) windshield washer fluid too if it were upto them
smirk2.gif
.

Sometime ago I have posted a VOA of their ATF Z1 in this forum as well if you'd like to compare. Except for Bo and the slightly lower viscosity of the atf, the fluids 'appear' to be similar.

benjamming, yes it has always been the same fluid (honda psf). and the car has a psf cooler ('99 Accord). I've got to run now but will come back and post about the history of the psf exchange on this car...I wish I can find those receipts that can tell me when and how much fluid I bought/replaced.
 
fluid exchange history out of hazy memory -

I remember having replaced 2-3 qts of psf about 20-25k miles ago. This was the first ever fluid exchange done.
Then I did one more about 4k miles ago - steering had started to feel a little more tight - and I believe that was about 6 quarts.
What I dont know yet is what is the fluid capacity of the system. So I dont know how much % of fluid was replaced, which makes it even more difficult to really put a "miles on oil" number on it.
Car is at 109k.
 
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Quote:
Honda uses a specific PSF. Molakule, when SF was still up & running, didn't recommend his standard (if you can bring any of his stuff down to that level) fare in their systems either.



Right. And our PSF was full synthetic and was used in racing.

And we had many requests to produce a Honda specific PSF but the economics weren't there. We had the technology to build it but it was just not worth the effort. And then Bardahl was advertising its Honda equivalent fluid at $2.00 a whack. No one really wanted performance over price at that time.
 
so what is this honda psf's speciality ? What does it have that other PSFs dont ?

anyone have any thoughts on the copper ? What part of the system would it come from anyway ?
 
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What does it have that other PSFs dont ?


1. A slightly higher viscosity than other PSF's or ATFs.

2. A zddp AW package similar to that of an SL motor oil.

3. Special dispersants and fricion modifiers.

As far as the copper, maybe the Honda's PS pump has brass or bronze sleeve bearings?

Some of the ASE mechanics here may know.
 
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And for some reason, NAPA has Honda type PSF, and it also says that it can be used in Chryslers, Fords, and GM cars that take regular PSF.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Not really, because most PCMO oils don't have that much magnesium.

It's an AO is it not? Motor oil just uses different AO if I'm thinking clearly.
 
See, I wasn't thinking clearly...hot here.
LOL.gif


Are the Mg dispersants required for this? PCMO and other lubes use other dispersants.
 
Or whoever won their OE fluid contract did so with this formula!

Wear doesn't look all that bad. Copper from pump bearings or copper infiltrated iron parts(note minimal iron). And, copper is truly not high(but really dependent on fluid history).

This UOA is interesting but more comparative data is needed. Wear just looks too low to be original psf. There is also a Honda PSF spec sheet that shows a 11cst start. I would expect more shearing from a fluid with many miles. And, no insolubles along with the low wear, truly scream PSF maintenance or filtration.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Are the Mg dispersants required for this?


Apparently Honda thinks so.


So, what would happen if someone uses an API 0W20 synthetic (assume SM) oil in place of the Honda PSF? Despite the slight viscosity difference and dispersant type difference, would there be permanent damage?
 
I would be concerned about the seal agents and the lack of the proper friction modifier and dispersant.

I would recommend against it, albeit it's your vehicle if you want to experiment.
 
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