I have a Fram car oil filter that failed. The metal perforated "sleeve" in the center of the filter (which holds the pleated filter media back) partially collapsed toward the center core of the filter. The failure appears to have allowed the oil to "bypass" the filter media. ( I haven't cut it open) The oil & filter had 4000 miles of use. The silicone anti-drain back valve, was also displaced. The filter was from a 1997 Toyota in excellent mechanical condition. I am wondering if the engine has been damaged, and what I should do with the defective Fram Tough Guard filter. Any suggestions? Have you ever heard of Fram (Honeywell) paying for engine damage because of a defective filter? Would an oil analysis be a good idea? I haven't changed the oil yet, I was just installing a new filter half way between a full synthetic oil changes. Thanks, Daryl
Failed Fram Oil Filter
- Thread starter Daryl_Chenoweth
- Start date
- Status
Thats caused by excessive oil pressure. Stuck oil pressure bypass valve?
Pictures?
UOA would be good. Document everything.
UOA would be good. Document everything.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Thats caused by excessive oil pressure. Stuck oil pressure bypass valve?
High oil pressure will not cause a huge increase in pressure differential across the filter, that is a affected more by the restriction of the media. Most then likely it's just a result of a flawed design combined with the luck of the draw.
Thats caused by excessive oil pressure. Stuck oil pressure bypass valve?
High oil pressure will not cause a huge increase in pressure differential across the filter, that is a affected more by the restriction of the media. Most then likely it's just a result of a flawed design combined with the luck of the draw.
Thanks for your responses! I tend to agree with T-Keith that possibly I just purchased a faulty filter. Perhaps the by-pass valve was faulty, (allowing the filter media to face excessive pressure) and caused the collapse of the center perforated tube. However that should only occur if the filter media was filled with contaminents and no longer allowed oil to pass through it! With only 4K on the oil change, that should not be the cause (unless I have had some sort of sudden excessive engine wear). Cold starts should not be the problem either since the oil was a full synthetic. The outside of the "can" does not show sign of excessive pressure as it is not deformed. Although the engine has 160,000 miles, it is quiet, burns no oil, has been well maintained, (and still seems fine). Perhaps a UOA would be a good place to start to rule out engine wear? I'll post pictures as soon as I figure out how to do that. Thanks again for all of your help. If the filter was defective, and since Fram isn't returning my calls, photos on the internet showing a faulty filter, may be my best recourse. Daryl
Originally Posted By: Daryl_Chenoweth
I have a Fram car oil filter that failed. The metal perforated "sleeve" in the center of the filter (which holds the pleated filter media back) partially collapsed toward the center core of the filter. The failure appears to have allowed the oil to "bypass" the filter media. ( I haven't cut it open) The oil & filter had 4000 miles of use. The silicone anti-drain back valve, was also displaced. The filter was from a 1997 Toyota in excellent mechanical condition. I am wondering if the engine has been damaged, and what I should do with the defective Fram Tough Guard filter. Any suggestions? Have you ever heard of Fram (Honeywell) paying for engine damage because of a defective filter? Would an oil analysis be a good idea? I haven't changed the oil yet, I was just installing a new filter half way between a full synthetic oil changes. Thanks, Daryl
Daryl,
I hope your Toyota is OK after what had happened. In the future you might consider buying an OEM filter from the dealership and use that instead of the inexpensive Fram. I do that in my car/truck and just use my own oil.
By the way was it the typical orange box Fram filter?????? You might consider droping them an e-mail and see what they tell you.
Fram filters are made by Honeywell in Torrance California.
Druango
I have a Fram car oil filter that failed. The metal perforated "sleeve" in the center of the filter (which holds the pleated filter media back) partially collapsed toward the center core of the filter. The failure appears to have allowed the oil to "bypass" the filter media. ( I haven't cut it open) The oil & filter had 4000 miles of use. The silicone anti-drain back valve, was also displaced. The filter was from a 1997 Toyota in excellent mechanical condition. I am wondering if the engine has been damaged, and what I should do with the defective Fram Tough Guard filter. Any suggestions? Have you ever heard of Fram (Honeywell) paying for engine damage because of a defective filter? Would an oil analysis be a good idea? I haven't changed the oil yet, I was just installing a new filter half way between a full synthetic oil changes. Thanks, Daryl
Daryl,
I hope your Toyota is OK after what had happened. In the future you might consider buying an OEM filter from the dealership and use that instead of the inexpensive Fram. I do that in my car/truck and just use my own oil.
By the way was it the typical orange box Fram filter?????? You might consider droping them an e-mail and see what they tell you.
Fram filters are made by Honeywell in Torrance California.
Druango
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
Originally Posted By: T-Keith
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Thats caused by excessive oil pressure. Stuck oil pressure bypass valve?
High oil pressure will not cause a huge increase in pressure differential across the filter, that is a affected more by the restriction of the media. Most then likely it's just a result of a flawed design combined with the luck of the draw.
just to continue the train of thought here.....I sorta agree..
Most of the time you experience higher pressure differentials across the media the OIL PUMP relief is shunting flow. The more you relieve ..the higher the pressure differential. Now you can surely get increased PSID due to loading, but it's minimal in most of our services.
No matter what, the oil filter's bypass valve should never let enough differential develop that would collapse a tube. That requires substantial differential to manage that.
So, I agree that this had to have a defective bypass valve and you got to be the lucky purchaser.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Thats caused by excessive oil pressure. Stuck oil pressure bypass valve?
High oil pressure will not cause a huge increase in pressure differential across the filter, that is a affected more by the restriction of the media. Most then likely it's just a result of a flawed design combined with the luck of the draw.
just to continue the train of thought here.....I sorta agree..
Most of the time you experience higher pressure differentials across the media the OIL PUMP relief is shunting flow. The more you relieve ..the higher the pressure differential. Now you can surely get increased PSID due to loading, but it's minimal in most of our services.
No matter what, the oil filter's bypass valve should never let enough differential develop that would collapse a tube. That requires substantial differential to manage that.
So, I agree that this had to have a defective bypass valve and you got to be the lucky purchaser.
Originally Posted By: Daryl_Chenoweth
...oil to "bypass" the filter media. ( I haven't cut it open)
DO NOT cut it open no matter what. Contact Fram and follow their return instructions. Ask for the filter back when they are done with it, also ask for a written report. Then take the pictures and post here. If you destroy the "evidence" you haven't got a leg to stand on as far as a possible claim.
Is this the filter listed for your engine?
...oil to "bypass" the filter media. ( I haven't cut it open)
DO NOT cut it open no matter what. Contact Fram and follow their return instructions. Ask for the filter back when they are done with it, also ask for a written report. Then take the pictures and post here. If you destroy the "evidence" you haven't got a leg to stand on as far as a possible claim.
Is this the filter listed for your engine?
Last edited:
yes it was the listed filter. A Fram Tough Guard. I don't remember the # right now. I'll post it later today with photos of the filter.
Are those centre tubes welded together? Maybe it was a bad tube.
Daryl, DO NOT cut that filter open. If it is defective, FRAM is good about covering claims, but they have to be the one to cut it open. Contact them and they will send you a filter retrieval kit. You can ask for the filter to be returned to you. They will examine the filter and write up a full report for you. I repeat, DO NOT cut the filter open. If you do, you do not have a leg to stand on.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Daryl, DO NOT cut that filter open. If it is defective, FRAM is good about covering claims, but they have to be the one to cut it open. Contact them and they will send you a filter retrieval kit. You can ask for the filter to be returned to you. They will examine the filter and write up a full report for you. I repeat, DO NOT cut the filter open. If you do, you do not have a leg to stand on.
Well that's two of us who said not to open the filter, and why. Think he'll listen?
Daryl, DO NOT cut that filter open. If it is defective, FRAM is good about covering claims, but they have to be the one to cut it open. Contact them and they will send you a filter retrieval kit. You can ask for the filter to be returned to you. They will examine the filter and write up a full report for you. I repeat, DO NOT cut the filter open. If you do, you do not have a leg to stand on.
Well that's two of us who said not to open the filter, and why. Think he'll listen?
Two authoritative pieces, one bulletin and one article, on collapsed center tubes:
Diagnosing Collapsed Center Tube
Article on Collapsed Center Tube
Diagnosing Collapsed Center Tube
Article on Collapsed Center Tube
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Two authoritative pieces, one bulletin and one article, on collapsed center tubes:
Diagnosing Collapsed Center Tube
Article on Collapsed Center Tube
Good post. Fords use to have this problem with the internal valve, but instead of a collapsed center tube, they would build up enough pressure to expand the filter housing and sometimes blow the filter off.
Two authoritative pieces, one bulletin and one article, on collapsed center tubes:
Diagnosing Collapsed Center Tube
Article on Collapsed Center Tube
Good post. Fords use to have this problem with the internal valve, but instead of a collapsed center tube, they would build up enough pressure to expand the filter housing and sometimes blow the filter off.
Here are the pics of my oil filter; I appreciate your suggestions. Thanks
Guys,
I uploaded the photos, sorry about the large size, but this was my first time using "photobucket" and I wasn't sure what size to upload. Actually the detail provided by the large view may be helpful. In the top photo, I used a wire to hold back the partially displaced ADV to allow a better view of the center tube collapse which was partially hidden from view. Don't worry, (Johnny, Pete and MrSilv04) I haven't cut into the filter! After viewing the photos I would appreciate your suggestions about where I should go from here. I did call Fram, and left a message on a machine 3 days ago. No one responded (I need to call again during business hours). I have ordered an Oil Analysis Kit, and will obtain a sample and send it for eval. I'll be interesting to see if the filter (Purolater) I installed last week, also has a collapsed center tube. If so, I'll know the problem is in the engine. If the Purolater is OK, then the Fram must have been a defective filter. Since the engine appears fine so far, how could I make a legitimate claim not knowing if damage really may have occured? TallPaul, thanks for the excellent links. Cars and engines have always been a hobby of mine. I have really enjoyed this forum. Daryl
I uploaded the photos, sorry about the large size, but this was my first time using "photobucket" and I wasn't sure what size to upload. Actually the detail provided by the large view may be helpful. In the top photo, I used a wire to hold back the partially displaced ADV to allow a better view of the center tube collapse which was partially hidden from view. Don't worry, (Johnny, Pete and MrSilv04) I haven't cut into the filter! After viewing the photos I would appreciate your suggestions about where I should go from here. I did call Fram, and left a message on a machine 3 days ago. No one responded (I need to call again during business hours). I have ordered an Oil Analysis Kit, and will obtain a sample and send it for eval. I'll be interesting to see if the filter (Purolater) I installed last week, also has a collapsed center tube. If so, I'll know the problem is in the engine. If the Purolater is OK, then the Fram must have been a defective filter. Since the engine appears fine so far, how could I make a legitimate claim not knowing if damage really may have occured? TallPaul, thanks for the excellent links. Cars and engines have always been a hobby of mine. I have really enjoyed this forum. Daryl
Hmmm. Looks like the Noria article is just a reprint of the filter council bulltin.
Hey, any gearhead will learn a lot browsing the filter council bulletins: http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/
Now I see I posted the one on collapsed center tubes for hydraulic filters, whereas they have a different one for engine oil filters: Engine Oil Filter Version
Your photos don't seem too big to me. Helps to see the filter better. Pretty hard to look down the hole and tell much. A shame you can't get through to Fram.
Hey, any gearhead will learn a lot browsing the filter council bulletins: http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/
Now I see I posted the one on collapsed center tubes for hydraulic filters, whereas they have a different one for engine oil filters: Engine Oil Filter Version
Your photos don't seem too big to me. Helps to see the filter better. Pretty hard to look down the hole and tell much. A shame you can't get through to Fram.
Fram did return my call by leaving a message on my machine. I'll let this board know how they respond.
Daryl
Daryl
- Status
