People Who Whine About Engine Oil Prices

[Bob The Builder]

I thought I would complain about something that has been bugging me for some time. It doesn't seem that anyone has mentioned this perspective before...even on bitog. I keep reading posts about how Joe Schmoe or John Smith doesn't want to use such and such oil because it's to expensive. Amsoil for example is 10 plus bucks a qt.

I say so what? Let's look at the bigger picture here. Who wants a huge repair bill on their engine down the road? No one, thats who.

Our family....with the exception of my dad has always driven super dooper high miles without overhauls, or major mechanical repairs of any sort. My Tacoma has 300k without opening the engine whatsoever...except one time when the valves were adjusted back at 140k I believe. (Does that count?)

We need to remind folks that the best oil should always be used and rightly so, to prevent future wear and tear on the inside of their engine. I strongly disagree that Supertech ought to be used just because it's on sale ...with a filter for 9.99 at Wal [censored].

If you are running low on cash and you really need to get that dirty oil out of there, then it's far better to use whatever oil and filter you can afford to get clean oil in your engine. You can throw some good stuff in that crankcase when finances allow.

On the other hand, I see people arguing over Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec with prices close 6.50 a qt on average and putting down Amsoil or even Redline because they are more. Well, I say who cares. I mean, when the overall difference between oils is 4 or 5 dollars, your looking at maybe 20 bucks extra for an oil change. Do it for your car or truck. The inside of that engine works really hard to get you from place to place.

The least you can do is keep it filled with the very best liquid gold.

Did I mention that I like Amsoil?

Have a great weekend!

 

[Audi Junkie]

Once it's "good enough", "better" does not really accomplish anything.

 

[GMFan]

Why would someone spend $10 on a quart of Amsoil when you can get a 5qt bottle of Pennzoil dino for that price and your engine will outlast the frame of the car?

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: GMFan
Why would someone spend $10 on a quart of Amsoil when you can get a 5qt bottle of Pennzoil dino for that price and your engine will outlast the frame of the car?
If you're in love with your car, you'll want to give it the very best no matter what. I would think that in general the more expensive a car, the more expensive an oil one will use.

 

[bobfather99]

Well, even if you just use ANY kind of motor oil(dino, blend or syn) there is always a better deal. Half the fun is seeing the money you save just by looking around.

 

[FZ1]

Both approaches have worked. 1. cheaper oil/filter and shorter ocis. 2.more expensive oil/filter and longer ocis. Pay your money and take your choice.

 

[Bill in Utah]

I guess I'm screwed for the last 30 + years and just think of all those engines that I've taken past 200k and are still running.

I'll have to let everyone know that their engines will blow up right away since I used cheap under a buck oil for most of their oil changes.

How will I sleep?

Quote:
The least you can do is keep it filled with the very best liquid gold.

Did I mention that I like Amsoil?

Bill

PS Bob... I've got a 1986 329k mile Jetta with has had ONLY the belts changed for 22 years. Same engine, transmission, Water pump, injectors, you name it. (never have adjusted the valves.. (can you?))

I've changed the oil and filter 4-5k, spark plugs every 75-90k miles and last year changed the transmission fluid @ 292k for the first time.

Still passes Dyno smog, gets 40mpg and runs great.

Oh it did break down once last year... The clutch cable broke and it had to be towed.

(bet $10 a quart oil would have prevented that!)

We could talk about my 82 Toyota truck. My 1996 Chev Truck with almost 250k, 1978 F250 with over 200k, etc..

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder
I strongly disagree that Supertech ought to be used just because it's on sale ...with a filter for 9.99 at Wal Wart.

As much as I would like to agree with you on the subject of maintenance, I would disagree on the point where SuperTech from Wallymart is to be disagreed upon.

Mind you though: (1) not everyone is well-informed like us regular BITOGers do; (2) While I do not disagree/disapprove folks from pursuing the absolute best for their vehicle (such as Redline, RoyolViolet or Amsoyl), the truth of the matter is, even SuperTech is quite good if you use it within it's limits (run your OCI conservatively); (3) I find that some BITOGers are snotty when it comes to motor oil in their rigs: yeah, so-n-so has a pinto and been running on Amsoil and claim absolute performance is, IMHO, is equally a waste of our precious resource, for some engines (example: Honda Accord 2.4L 4cyl) is very, very easy on oil and can be run on extended drains and still lasts a long, long time before it requires major mechanical servicing; (4) IMHO it's all about mechanical maintenance with due diligence: oil changes, tuneups, scheduled mechanical servicing such as T-belt, idler tensioner pulley(s), water pumps, PCV valve, etc. shall not be skilled/missed; (5) eventually, depending on quality of design and component quality, all engines will wear out and require overhaul in order to restore their proper operational characteristics.

Just because you, my good man, can afford to go with RoyolViolet, Armsol, etc. in your car doesn't mean that me can do so w/o giving in my financial considerations(*yes, I'm cheep and I admit it, so what?!?*) At the end, if you still neglect other maintenance and services (suspension revisions every 100kkms, shocks/struts replacement every 100kkms, etc.), your car still not gonna last/run properly even if you have those exotic motor oil inside.

Bottomline: yes, while exotic Gp4 oil may provide user better peace of mind, IMHO based on all the UOA posted so far RE:GTX, yelloBottle,SupaTech, or even lowly formula shelle and MC 5W20 syn-blend still gives admirable results with low wear numbers.

In the world of automotive operations and ownerships, proper maintenance and servicing of the entire vehicle (not just the engine oil changes itself) is the only way to assure long operating intervals, with low TCO and good, consistent, if not reliable service. Putting exotic oil inside an engine with a broken transmission or suspension is as wasteful as not operating that vehicle at all--> still not providing any basic service as intended.

My 2c's worth. My $$ goes where no snotty BITOGers would go (as far as avg joe grade motoroil's concerned).

I cannot see you seeing the big picture, still dwelling on motor oil and motor oil only.....

Q.

p.s. I have, in the past, maintained a small fleet of vehicles straight from the dealer's lot until they were totaled in the PNW weather with basic yet scheduled mechanical servicing, and most of these engines have over 250,000kms to clock before they were dismissed (to the wrecker) using basic copper alloy plugs and formula shell/Esso/PetroCanada regular grade motor oils. All these vehicles still passed our local emissions testing (annually) with no oil consumption issues and exhibited minimal cylinder wall wear. One of them is my dad's daily city vehicle, a 88 Mazda B6 block with fuel injection.

 

[Quest]

What I'm trying to say is that, in other words, in the world of automotive, lubrication plays an important part but unfortunately, motor oil is not the "be all, end all" part in automotive/automotive technology, period.

Q.

 

[Ponch]

Hey bob,....I sure hope your comment about "people whining" about engine oil prices wasn't in reference to my earlier post about Amsoil SSO being 10 dollars plus per quart. I didn't join this forum to be cut down, if you were not directing that towards me than I apoligize in advance....Let me tell you about my past history with Amsoil, Two back to back runs with the old series 2000 0w30, and then a run with series 3000 HDD, and after 6 month's, and 9,000 miles on both batches showed what I consider to be "abnormal' results....viscosity in the 15plus range which is a 40 wt oil! This was on a mechanically sound engine. I even ran this oil in a family member's vehicle for the same timeframe, and miles, and the same results happened. Also a decrease in MPG which resulted from this oil thickening so much. Not to mention oxidation/nitration levels out of sight also. After arguing with their tech department on the phone, and getting a different story every time I called, I completely quit using this oil in all of my vehicles. I had even spoke with Al jr. himself, and got nowhere. ......Now, I see they reformulated their oils to a lower viscosity, ( I assume to control viscosity thickening?) and I am thinking about giving them another shot based on people's opinion on this board, and also people's UOA results. THIS is why I am "whining" about paying 10 dollars plus per quart...if I cant get an honest full year out of this oil, I am going to other alternatives ....like pennzoil platinum, which I have been seeing excellent comments on. Some people on this board think that viscosity thickening is okay, and I agree to a point, and also agree that thickening instead of shearing is also good too, but going to a 30 wt oil to a 40 weight, in 6 months is not acceptable to me. Especially when they advertise that their oils "remain in grade" and do not thicken like conventional oils do. I know that I am probably "stirring the pot" on this subject, but I had to let it out.

 

[Dale_Knight]

Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder
The least you can do is keep it filled with the very best liquid gold.


The best oils in the world won't keep the internals safe from Si dirt damage, and extended OCI compound that problem. The fellow who uses cheap dino oil but does his oil and filter changes at 2-3000 miles like we all used to 40 years ago may be taking better care of his modern engine.

Many more years ago oil changes were free if you bought the product.

.

 

[Bob The Builder]

Originally Posted By: Ponch
Hey bob,....I sure hope your comment about "people whining" about engine oil prices wasn't in reference to my earlier post about Amsoil SSO being...


Not at all Ponch.

All great comments. The only thing I really have a problem with is using Pennzoil. I must admit that I'm surprised by the number of people using and recommending it.

Where are all of the long term studies done on this stuff? I have seen and continue to hear of many instances of engines trashed because of Pennzoil's inability to keep sludge in check. I've never heard these kinds of horror stories with Amsoil or Castrol Syntec.

Stir away Poncho. We can take it!

PS I actually learned a couple of new and interesting tidbits recently. Pennzoil wasn't always known as such. In 1963, South Penn Oil merged with Zapata Petroleum to become Pennzoil. (Pennzapataoil hehe) Also, Jiffy Lube is a wholly owned subsidiary of Pennzoil-Quaker State Company. It was purchased in 1990.

I already knew about the Quaker State deal from back in '98.

 

[demarpaint]

I ran an 85 E-150 for close to 160,000 miles on Pennzoil yellow bottle. Never any oil related issues, just before I sold it I changed the valve cover gasket. The top of the engine was as clean as the day I rolled that van off the lot. This particular van was sold to a guy who did deliveries to and from JFK Airport in heavy stop and go traffic. At 250,000 miles he totaled it and it was still running like a top he said.

Frank D

 

[CharBaby]

Well, Im not paying $10.00 per/qt for any oil but, until the kids left home, we had always put on some 250,000-350,000 miles on our cars, traveling to all of the school events, travel soccar, family vacations and to and from work and just running all over town(grocery/school shopping). All of our vehicles used "conventional oil" with OCI of 3000-5000 miles. Most of these engines were 4 cylinders.

It wasn't until I discovered BITOG that I learned about the differnces between dino and synth. I have always purchaced my oil/filters on sale/rebate and have stored in the garage, quite a few cases of oil. I regularly check the sales/rebate section for more deals and have been buying dino & synth at a great price. So now I mix both for my OCI.

One of the things that I learned on my own was that, what oil I used made very little difference in my engines. I wasn't concerned wheather or not the oil was dino or synth as much as I was concerned about just buying better engines. In the early 70'sthrough most of the 90's, domestic 4 cyl engines and many 6's & 8's didn't hold up for me as did the Asian 4 cyl's. I stopped being concerned about oil per/say and started focusing on engine quality. Today, all engines are very good and one can purchace just about any make or model without too much concern. Most will get you 200,000 miles easily. Good engines can run on anything and as many here have said; "the rest of the vehicle will fall apart before the engine wares out".

 

[Max_Wander]

the only thing I'm whining about now is how a quart of fuel costs more than a quart of oil...

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder
I must admit that I'm surprised by the number of people using and recommending it.

Where are all of the long term studies done on this stuff? I have seen and continue to hear of many instances of engines trashed because of Pennzoil's inability to keep sludge in check. I've never heard these kinds of horror stories with Amsoil or Castrol Syntec.


BdaBldr,

I'm equally surprised if not appalled (more like perplexed) that you would have such narrow mindset RE: Pennzoil trashed engines because of sludge (I can now guess how old/what sort of age group you fall into, heee...heee...)

Fact is, even w/o BITOG postings on UOAs and such, there are still 10s if not hundreds of thousands of vehicle owners in the continental US+ Canada running Pennzoil bulk from dealerships, 10-min change, etc. and not aware of having sludge problems. Case to the point is, anyone who gets onto internet and start whining about pennzsludge and such are either (a)still lingering to the good ole urban legend (all started as a propaganda commercials from 1 rival oil company towards another); (b)disregarding the other aspects of automobile maintenance(clogged PCV valves are more common than you think); (c) not performing OCI intervals as per factory's min. recommendation (or not changing oil at all).

Fact: all motor oils sold OTC in Continental US +Canada are at least certified with API grading systems, and if there's ILSAC associated, that's even better. This is a bare minimum guarantee that the motor oil in-question passed industry standards and are being recognised for use in automobiles recommending such certifications. In my mind, pennzoil is no different than, say QS, or even SuperTech(yes, you hate Supertech but don't you know Warren products make lots of motor oil that one way or another, you already using some of them and not knowing??!?).

Let me gently remind you that automotive engine is a very complicated matter and Murphy's law reinforces the notion that something will fail one way or another. Statistically-speaking, the sludging up of engine due to inferior quality oil used during the past 20 yrs has been small/insignificant, letting alone sludge issues associated to pennzoil. As a former mech, I can tell you that most of these sludging are due to owner's negligence and more.

Q.

 

[twentynine]

Hey Bob

Try to keep it on a friendly note.

Prove to me that I am hurting my engine using Pennsoil or Super Tech.

Prove to me that spending $5-$7-$9 a quart on oil you are making your engine last longer.

To tell you the perfect truth Bob, I use whatever I can find on sale or close out at a cost of $1 per quart or less. QS Q-Torque, Havoline DS, Coastal, Shell, Super Tech, Pennsoil, and a whole bunch of others I can't even remember. Presently paired with an AA oil filter that I got on the yearly 2fer1 sale. Guess what, just like you, I ain't had no failures.

 

[Bob The Builder]

Originally Posted By: twentynine
Hey Bob

Try to keep it on a friendly note.

Prove to me that I am hurting my engine using Pennsoil or Super Tech.

Prove to me that spending $5-$7-$9 a quart on oil you are making your engine last longer.

To tell you the perfect truth Bob, I use whatever I can find on sale or close out at a cost of $1 per quart or less. QS Q-Torque, Havoline DS, Coastal, Shell, Super Tech, Pennsoil, and a whole bunch of others I can't even remember. Presently paired with an AA oil filter that I got on the yearly 2fer1 sale. Guess what, just like you, I ain't had no failures.



I thought I was keeping it on a friendly note.

Bottom line is we are going off subject a little. The real problem is this attitude people have regarding price differences between oils. I don't feel that they are justified in making claims such as, "I won't buy so and so oil because I just won't pay 9 something for a qt of oil." To me that is ignorance. Companies need to turn a profit. (I am not talking about these companies profitting off gasoline.)

I personally cannot justify using a cheap oil in an expensive engine. They are all expensive engines. I know you won't blow up an engine by using a cheesy low quality oil like Supertech, but you will shorten its life...even if you do short interval oc's. Cheap oils just don't contain the additive packages necessary for lowered engine wear, longer oci's and less emissions.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Vilan]

Your engine doesn't know how much you paid for the oil you're putting in it. It *does* know if that oil is any good or not. If you're putting in oil that will keep your engine protected to the degree that you're happy with, that's all that matters.

 

[twentynine]

Well Bob I am one of those guys you consider ignorant. Cause I ain't paying no $9 for one quart of oil or even $5. My friend I have not called you or your ideas ignorant. I do however think you got way more money than I got.

If you want to pay $9 per quart go ahead, not me, not now, not ever. I can take my $1 oil achieve the same results and have $8 left over to go have fun with. Heck my Dodge uses 7 qts per OCI. 7 qts of oil and my $1.25 oil filter. Shoot I get a whole oil change for what you say you are paying for 1 quart. Let's see going your route 7 X $9 = $63 throw in your filter, your $70 into an oil change. That's right you use the bestest-- so I could go double- triple- quadruple the mileage. Well, by my figuring I would have to do 7 times the mileage. That is if you are useing the $9 a quart number. Go a head spend your money, it is yours.

PROVE TO ME that cheap oil does not contain the required additives to meet the API specification. Just saying that cheap oil does not contain the necessary additive package does not make it so. Just as surely spending $9 on a quart of oil don't automatically make it the best. What makes oil "cheesy"? I dare say what makes an oil cheesy to you, makes it nectar of the gods for me. Pennsoil- don't tell me you bought into the sludge rumors? Supertech- peaved at Wally world or what? Shell Formula--ugly package? So on and so on.