My 1.8 Engine And Sludge

[Frank]

I purchased my '99 AEB 1.8T with 5k. I started changing my own oil as
> soon as I purchased the car. When the first oil sludging failure reports
> started surfacing among the Club B5'ers and the discussion of AutoRx
> surfaced I tried the AutoRx product. I did notice a significant
> difference in the oil consistency (many clumps) when I ran the "rinse"
> cycle after the AutoRx. Ever since, I have run the "maintenance" dose
> and I have not had any problems regarding sludge. I just started my
> second "cleaning" cycle at 98k on the odo. I run an APR chip and the
> 1.8T is running strong.
>
> Note: I do not work for, nor am I associated with Frank.

 

[wavinwayne]

[IMHO]

The 1.8T engines with the small sumps were the only ones with sludge issues, and this was from owners running dino oil for LONG OCI's, and/or synthetic for waaaaaaaaay too long.

Anybody who changed the oil (assuming a 5w30 or thicker oil) in one of these engines every 5-7k miles, and kept it topped up, didn't experience sludge.

[/MHO]

 

[ourfamo4]

Also when you start to have the blinking oil light, the main thing to do is drop the oil pan and clean it out. Also replacing the oil pump will take you a long way towards fixing the problem.

This is the correct way to cure the problem, and help running additives and shorter oil changes go much [censored].

This is all my .02 of course.

 

[Frank]

We don,t suggest additives they are way to harsh and can leave particultes that can stop up the oil screen or a piston port. We don't remove oil screens or replace pumps (after all what does that do to keep the sludge from coming back ?) Auto-Rx cleans out the sludge and by following the maintenance plan keeps the new sludge in liquid form. driving it to the oil filter. You might want to read our application for sludge removal on http://www.auto-rx.com and our guarantee

 

[Yuk]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne


The 1.8T engines with the small sumps were the only ones with sludge issues, and this was from owners running dino oil for LONG OCI's, and/or synthetic for waaaaaaaaay too long.

Anybody who changed the oil (assuming a 5w30 or thicker oil) in one of these engines every 5-7k miles, and kept it topped up, didn't experience sludge.


Um.... Not true. I used Castrol Syntec 5W-50 (an ACEA A3 oil) and Mobil 1 15W-50 from day one in my AEB 1.8T. Always changed my oil and factory filter every 8,000 KM/5000 miles (the VW required OCI). I used an engine flush every 3rd OCI, and always let the turbo cool down before shutting off the engine. I started seeing sludge under the filler cap at 80,000 km/50,000 miles. In 2001, when I investigated with dealers and VW North America (including the Canadian national service manager), they told me that the synthetic I was using was overkill and the VW specs, like 503.01, were only required for european owners with extended drain intervals. It is because of this very sludge problem that I searched out online help and discovered BITOG in 2003.

P.S. I also did 2 Auto-Rx treatments, the results were inconclusive.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
[IMHO]

The 1.8T engines with the small sumps were the only ones with sludge issues, and this was from owners running dino oil for LONG OCI's, and/or synthetic for waaaaaaaaay too long.

Anybody who changed the oil (assuming a 5w30 or thicker oil) in one of these engines every 5-7k miles, and kept it topped up, didn't experience sludge.

[/MHO]


Were any of these turbo's, ww? I believe the 2.8 VW/AUDI engine suffered from the same small sump and too long an OEM OCI spec. I guess you could consider it a European tradition. They always bit you if you didn't maintain them right. The sludge thing is a bit more destructive in effect compared to what neglect meant back in the 70's.

..but once you're into the problem, what are you gonna do?

 

[wavinwayne]

Yuk,

Maybe you got a lemon? Or maybe your pcv system was not working properly. There may have been others with the problem you had, but I still say it was much more an issue of neglect from owners, than a bad engine design from VW.

I have a 2000 GTI 1.8T. It has 120k miles on it. I've run all sorts of oil, including dino, in this engine. I've even used dino 5w30 for 6500 miles on two consecutive oil changes.

The inside of my engine is very clean, with ZERO signs of sludge.

 

[ourfamo4]

Everyone needs to relize that with the original filter the B5 A4/Passat only had a 3.5qt. oil capcity. This was the main cause for the sludging, cheap oil used by dealers + 5K-10K OCI also added to the recipe for disater. Also they had a tight engine bay which didn't allow for much air cooling for the turbo, and is also the cause for most B5 S4 turbo failures (heat).

As for the V6 cars they use a 6.5qt system, and these never had any sludge problems. Lots of oil leaks and PCV trouble though.

The MK4 1.8T cars never had the sludge problems, they are very easy on oil.

All sludging aside these motors are VERY stout, you can get 350hp on the stock internals. We have one here with 425whp with no more than upgraded rods on a otherwise stock block.

 

[Gary Allan]

Ooops ..just saw the "T" suffix there. Gotta get the meds checked again

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: ourfamo4
The MK4 1.8T cars never had the sludge problems, they are very easy on oil.
No sir. The longitudinal 1.8T cars (Passat 1.8T and Audi A4 1.8T) are the most sludge-prone and they are what made VW/Audi famous for it.

The transverse 1.8T engines can also sludge up but are less prone to it. Mine didn't sludge, it varnished up badly. It was fed the recommended oils and usually changed at the recommended 5K mile intervals. Running it hard and hot tends to produce varnish while sludge is usually from running it cold and having many short trips. I ran my too hard, hot, and long.

 

[ourfamo4]

There is a huge difference between oil varnish on a longitude 1.8T and SLUDGE in transverse 1.8T.

I have never heard of a transverse 1.8T failing due to sludge.....

 

[JAG]

Well, some have said, which I cannot verify at this time, that some of the so-called sludged 1.8Ts were actually varnished. That is, hard carbonaceous particles were what clogged the oil pick-up screens. The term sludge is a word that's familiar to many people while varnish as it relates to motor oil is lesser known. People with failed engines caused by deposits are more likely to say, "My engine has sludge." than they are to say "My engine has varnish."

Quote:
I have never heard of a transverse 1.8T failing due to sludge.....
Me neither.

 

[Yuk]

Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Yuk,

Maybe you got a lemon? Or maybe your pcv system was not working properly. There may have been others with the problem you had, but I still say it was much more an issue of neglect from owners, than a bad engine design from VW.

I have a 2000 GTI 1.8T. It has 120k miles on it. I've run all sorts of oil, including dino, in this engine. I've even used dino 5w30 for 6500 miles on two consecutive oil changes.

The inside of my engine is very clean, with ZERO signs of sludge.



No lemon, just a very well cared for VW which at worse had a few very bad design flaws, or at best was misunderstood by the North American wing of VW.

The reason why you haven't had the problem is because your GTI is pulling around at least 500lbs less weight than the Passat. Probably more importantly though, the GTI is not one of the longitudinal 1.8T cars.

JAG had a like comment, that I've quoted below:
Quote:
No sir. The longitudinal 1.8T cars (Passat 1.8T and Audi A4 1.8T) are the most sludge-prone and they are what made VW/Audi famous for it.

The transverse 1.8T engines can also sludge up but are less prone to it. Mine didn't sludge, it varnished up badly. It was fed the recommended oils and usually changed at the recommended 5K mile intervals. Running it hard and hot tends to produce varnish while sludge is usually from running it cold and having many short trips. I ran my too hard, hot, and long.
Top

 

[Rick20]

I have observed over the years, the owners of A4's, TT, Passats, and GTI's love their automobiles. The 1.8T packs alot of punch for such a small displacement, yet is quite economical as well.
But creating that much juice out of a 1.8 liter motor also creates a fairly stout demand on oil as well. I like the original posters recipe for success, here. Good points about the small sump capacity on the longitudinal design. Likely because there was no room for a larger oil pan.

 

[Gary Allan]

The short trip sludge that Jag is probably referring to is like pudding. Soft in composition and high in mass. It's congealed oil that never reaches operating temperature that forms layer upon layer. It's soft just due to it's lack of cooking time. This is something you saw with oils of the past (60's and 70's stuff).

The newer "sludge monsters" tend to be from over working the oil and having it go through its life cycle at an accelerated rate. It's just like taking oil in a beaker to sustained temps of 550F. It eventually forms a hard tar like deposit that's very hard but not necessarily "big".

With the pudding type of sludge, you'll saturate a filter in a very short amount of time. With the tar like stuff, you'll probably see that "grit" that many have reported. They both probably take the same amount of time to totally remove from the engine. The pudding just due to it's physical volume (a filter only holds so much ..and only so much can remain in suspension) but the tar due to its resistance to liquefying/dislodging from where it resides.