OMG..I bet that weighs more than my first Civic.
HARLEY DAVIDSON ENGINE OIL QUESTION
- Thread starter MULESKINNER
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Originally Posted By: blackcherry06
OMG..I bet that weighs more than my first Civic.
It may well have a bigger engine than your first Civic.
I remember when the first Civics came out. They weren't called "Civics" then, they were "CVCC" ... which was short for 1500 CC.
The Wing is 1832cc.
I remember popping the hood on one of those original CVCC's and marveling at how *tiny* the engine was compared to what Detroit was putting out.
OMG..I bet that weighs more than my first Civic.
It may well have a bigger engine than your first Civic.
I remember when the first Civics came out. They weren't called "Civics" then, they were "CVCC" ... which was short for 1500 CC.
The Wing is 1832cc.
I remember popping the hood on one of those original CVCC's and marveling at how *tiny* the engine was compared to what Detroit was putting out.
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
It may well have a bigger engine than your first Civic.
I remember when the first Civics came out. They weren't called "Civics" then, they were "CVCC" ... which was short for 1500 CC.
The Wing is 1832cc.
I remember popping the hood on one of those original CVCC's and marveling at how *tiny* the engine was compared to what Detroit was putting out.
CVCC = Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion. It helped them meet emissions standards in this country with early Civics, Accords and Preludes.
Looks like the Wing's engine is about the same displacement as my Mom's first Accord, with the 1.8L PGM-FI. My Civic was 1.6. Quite a bike you have there.
It may well have a bigger engine than your first Civic.
I remember when the first Civics came out. They weren't called "Civics" then, they were "CVCC" ... which was short for 1500 CC.
The Wing is 1832cc.
I remember popping the hood on one of those original CVCC's and marveling at how *tiny* the engine was compared to what Detroit was putting out.
CVCC = Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion. It helped them meet emissions standards in this country with early Civics, Accords and Preludes.
Looks like the Wing's engine is about the same displacement as my Mom's first Accord, with the 1.8L PGM-FI. My Civic was 1.6. Quite a bike you have there.
Okay, I'm wrong.
Nice Wikipedia pull.
Nice Wikipedia pull.
Actually, I learned all about CVCC from my 3 cousins in Florida who've had Hondas all their lives, but I couldn't remember what the "CV" stood for. The 2 boys had numerous Accords, and the girl had 3 Preludes before her kids were born. Her 1985 is still being driven and now she has a Van....ugh.
They were -- and are -- great cars.
My memory -- faulty as it is -- recalls the little name plate on the hood and back hatch reading "CVCC". I don't recall the actual word "Civic" spelled out. Was it? Or was "Civic" something that evolved later because that's how people were pronouncing the "CVCC" letters?
My memory -- faulty as it is -- recalls the little name plate on the hood and back hatch reading "CVCC". I don't recall the actual word "Civic" spelled out. Was it? Or was "Civic" something that evolved later because that's how people were pronouncing the "CVCC" letters?
The earliest Civic that I'm familiar with is my high-school girlfriend's 1979 and it did say 'Civic' on the hatch. I've been under the impression that 'Civic' has always been the play on words Honda used to name the car in 1973 because of the CVCC engine it had. As far as I know they've always been named 'Civic'.
The last time I saw a CVCC nameplate it was on the hatch of my cousins old Accord, so I may be wrong about this.
The last time I saw a CVCC nameplate it was on the hatch of my cousins old Accord, so I may be wrong about this.
My first memory of it goes back to -- oh -- I'd say 1974 or so. What I may be recalling is the "CVCC" imprinted on the air filter box or the engine somewhere.
Wikipedia says the car debuted in 1973 and the CVCC engine in 1975, so I guess it's likely the name "Civic" came first.
Still, the closeness of "CVCC" and "Civic" can't be pure coincidence.
Wikipedia says the car debuted in 1973 and the CVCC engine in 1975, so I guess it's likely the name "Civic" came first.
Still, the closeness of "CVCC" and "Civic" can't be pure coincidence.
No, I wouldn't think so. I always assumed that's where it came from.
Originally Posted By: blackcherry06
OMG..I bet that weighs more than my first Civic.
What, now I have a BIG, FAT, OVERGROWN motorcycle?
Is that what you're trying to say?
I'll have you know that it's just "weight challenged"
AND - the Wife's "old school" weighs more than that Gold Wing, and it's really hurting in the 'horsepower' department!!!
OMG..I bet that weighs more than my first Civic.
What, now I have a BIG, FAT, OVERGROWN motorcycle?
Is that what you're trying to say?
I'll have you know that it's just "weight challenged"
AND - the Wife's "old school" weighs more than that Gold Wing, and it's really hurting in the 'horsepower' department!!!
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ahh, but that's a SWEET looking old school. I bet it has way more personality. 
Complete with kisses before / after a ride from the looks of it.
Complete with kisses before / after a ride from the looks of it.Darn it, there is not enough chrome on that horse!
And where are all the LED lights?
And where are all the LED lights?
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dnewton3
Staff member
Would it be inappropriate to mention the "beating a dead horse" thing here?
since we've drifted WAY off topic,
Because that one sure looks healthy ...
Because that one sure looks healthy ...
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One thing I forgot to mention
wait for it......
(drum roll , please.....)
IT'S FOUR WHEEL DRIVE !!!
wait for it......
(drum roll , please.....)
IT'S FOUR WHEEL DRIVE !!!
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Soooooooooooooo, The engine that failed with Amsoil, was it engine related or oil related...?
As I wrote in my first post, my friend has experienced three engine failures while running three different oils: HD Synthetic, Mobil 1, and Amsoil.
All three engines failures exhibited the same symptoms: The engine puked its oil out. I don't own Harleys, but I believe there is a cam position sensor(?) on the front of the engine. The part is encased in a plastic/nylon housing and on all three occasions, the oil vacated the engine in this area. From the outside, it looked like the housing could not stand the heat generated by sustained speeds over 100 MPH. My friend does not know if any other parts failed internally as HD required the dealer to ship the engine back to the factory - nobody really got a good look inside.
Did HD, Mobil 1 and Amsoil fail? The only observation made by my friend was oil foaming in the oil tank immediately after high speed runs.
HD, Mobil 1, and Amsoil foamed to varying degrees. The three engines running on these three oils failed. Fourth engine is running on Redline and according to my friend, he hasn't observed any foaming in the oil tank after high speed runs. He also states that he has put many more sustained high speed miles on engine #4 that the other three engines without failure.
I don't know if engines 1,2 and 3 failed because of oil. I don't know if Redline is that much better. The only difference observed by my friend was lack of oil foaming with Redline.
Can this be tied to engine #4 not failing (yet)? Will engine #4 fail on the next 15 minute 110MPH excursion? I don't know. At this point there is no oil foaming with Redline and the engine is intact.
HD never brought up oil failure during the warranty process. My guess is they really didn't want to get into a discussion of modern vs. older engine and oiling system design. Why should they as the number of people riding their HDs like my friend does can probably be counted on one hand with a few fingers left over. Much easier and cheaper to just warranty engines for a few customers
Soooooooooooooo, The engine that failed with Amsoil, was it engine related or oil related...?
As I wrote in my first post, my friend has experienced three engine failures while running three different oils: HD Synthetic, Mobil 1, and Amsoil.
All three engines failures exhibited the same symptoms: The engine puked its oil out. I don't own Harleys, but I believe there is a cam position sensor(?) on the front of the engine. The part is encased in a plastic/nylon housing and on all three occasions, the oil vacated the engine in this area. From the outside, it looked like the housing could not stand the heat generated by sustained speeds over 100 MPH. My friend does not know if any other parts failed internally as HD required the dealer to ship the engine back to the factory - nobody really got a good look inside.
Did HD, Mobil 1 and Amsoil fail? The only observation made by my friend was oil foaming in the oil tank immediately after high speed runs.
HD, Mobil 1, and Amsoil foamed to varying degrees. The three engines running on these three oils failed. Fourth engine is running on Redline and according to my friend, he hasn't observed any foaming in the oil tank after high speed runs. He also states that he has put many more sustained high speed miles on engine #4 that the other three engines without failure.
I don't know if engines 1,2 and 3 failed because of oil. I don't know if Redline is that much better. The only difference observed by my friend was lack of oil foaming with Redline.
Can this be tied to engine #4 not failing (yet)? Will engine #4 fail on the next 15 minute 110MPH excursion? I don't know. At this point there is no oil foaming with Redline and the engine is intact.
HD never brought up oil failure during the warranty process. My guess is they really didn't want to get into a discussion of modern vs. older engine and oiling system design. Why should they as the number of people riding their HDs like my friend does can probably be counted on one hand with a few fingers left over. Much easier and cheaper to just warranty engines for a few customers
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Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Darn it, there is not enough chrome on that horse!
And where are all the LED lights?
Don't need no stinking LED lights - it can see in the dark, and it knows it's way home - PLUS, did you notice the quick-release seat system? Easily interchangable.
Darn it, there is not enough chrome on that horse!
And where are all the LED lights?
Don't need no stinking LED lights - it can see in the dark, and it knows it's way home - PLUS, did you notice the quick-release seat system? Easily interchangable.
So much more environmentally friendly too. Oats and water, and only the occasional gassy emission. And they can keep you company even when you're not on a ride.
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER
Now my question is why wouldn't Delo 15/40 work just fine in my engine?
Yes it would work - but in my mind you would be better served with a something-w50 for ambient air temperatures over 80 degrees.
Now my question is why wouldn't Delo 15/40 work just fine in my engine?
Yes it would work - but in my mind you would be better served with a something-w50 for ambient air temperatures over 80 degrees.
Back to the original topic ...
It would certainly seem like there's a correlation between the oil and the engine failure. The one possible variable shift here is a different (or somehow strengthened) engine for #4.
What would be great is to turn back time and install some more precise engine oil temperature and pressure gauges along with data capture mechanisms and see if at the time of engine failure there was an indication of excessive pressure or temperature ... and compare this against what's seen with Redline.
Amsoil prides itself on its anti-foaming capabilities. That "Motorcycle Oil" PDF that's widely touted shows most of the difference between Amsoil and Mobil 1 being found in foaming test (which the PDF shows Mobil 1 doing poorly in stage 2).
If I'm not mistaken, H-D has a rather long and storied history of flat-track racing. Perhaps not 100mph sustained, but certain some high-RPM sustained for the duration of the race. I guess I'm suggesting that while H-D engine technology is not cutting edge, it's also not excessively fragile.
Bottom line -- three blown engines is very odd. H-D quietly replacing without any apparent push-back is even more odd to my eye.
It may be that Redline is that superior. But I'm just not sure what Redline would have for anti-foaming that would prove that much more successful than someone such as Amsoil, who strive to outperform all comers in those kinds of measured lab tests.
It would certainly seem like there's a correlation between the oil and the engine failure. The one possible variable shift here is a different (or somehow strengthened) engine for #4.
What would be great is to turn back time and install some more precise engine oil temperature and pressure gauges along with data capture mechanisms and see if at the time of engine failure there was an indication of excessive pressure or temperature ... and compare this against what's seen with Redline.
Amsoil prides itself on its anti-foaming capabilities. That "Motorcycle Oil" PDF that's widely touted shows most of the difference between Amsoil and Mobil 1 being found in foaming test (which the PDF shows Mobil 1 doing poorly in stage 2).
If I'm not mistaken, H-D has a rather long and storied history of flat-track racing. Perhaps not 100mph sustained, but certain some high-RPM sustained for the duration of the race. I guess I'm suggesting that while H-D engine technology is not cutting edge, it's also not excessively fragile.
Bottom line -- three blown engines is very odd. H-D quietly replacing without any apparent push-back is even more odd to my eye.
It may be that Redline is that superior. But I'm just not sure what Redline would have for anti-foaming that would prove that much more successful than someone such as Amsoil, who strive to outperform all comers in those kinds of measured lab tests.
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