HARLEY DAVIDSON ENGINE OIL QUESTION

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I need a professional opinion from an "oil guru type" regarding engine oil for my 07 HD 96" V-Twin. I now use M1 V-Twin 20W/50 synthetic in my engine. I know this is most likely the best oil made for the bike, except for Amsoil. But, the stuff is almost $10.00 per quart now. In the HD manual it states if you can't get HD oil, one can use a diesel grade oil until you can get HD oil.

Now my question is why wouldn't Delo 15/40 work just fine in my engine? I live and ride mostly in the hot So Cal desert. I would think a diesel grade HD oil such as Delo would work just fine. Besides, Delo is around $11.00 per gallon. That's a large difference in price. Anyone?
 
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Except for the difference in grade (40 vs. 50) I think you'll find most will say Delo (or Rotella, or Delvac) will work just fine.

Lots and lots of people use diesel oil in their bikes. I have in the past, and will in the future (I have a Goldwing).

Others here will no doubt chime in.
 
Hmph. I have a Vulcan 1500 and was just pondering the same question. I guess the on ething I'm not sure on is if the HDEO oils work properly with a wet clutch (in my case), I don't think Harley has the same issue.

Otherwise, just using straight car oil would always be OK, yet they have "motorcycle formulations". Which may just also be marketing...

Who knows.
 
A friend of mine in Palmdale, California owns a 1200 Sportster. He has blown three engines (replaced under warranty). He rides the Harley like his Ducati 996, which amazes the guys who think they are fast on Angeles Crest Highway on their Japanese crotch rockets.

He has a habit of heading out to Mojave on the 14 and then onto Randsberg and holding over 100MPH for 15 - 20 minutes at and ambient 100 F. All three engines spewed their oil out at high speed. He's gone through several brands of oil: HD synthetic (real [censored]), Mobil 1 for Air Cooled Twins, better but second engine blew up, Amsoil-third engine blew up, and Redline. The fourth engine is doing fine on Redline.

During this process of destroying engines, he added an oil temperature gauge (oil tank filler cap) after blowing engine #1.

Running engine #1 on HD Synthetic - noticed oil foaming in tank.

Running engine #2 On HD Synthetic and switching to Mobil 1 resulted in lower oil temperatures, but oil still foamed

Switching to Amsoil on engine #3 resulted in slightly lower oil temps than Mobil 1 and slightly less foaming. Engine still blew up.

(Sorry, but I don't recall the oil temps on engines #2 and #3.

Oil temps on engine #4 reach 325 F. at the tank, but NO FOAMING with Redline oil. Engine still in one piece with more high speed miles than engines #1, #2 and #3 put together.

The theory: Redline oil doesn't foam in this application, so the temperatures are higher because oil foam doesn't carry as much heat as liquid oil. Redline can evidently take the high temperatures and since it doesn't foam, the oil can do its job protecting the engine.

It was amusing to watch HD replace three engines. They wouldn't tell my friend what the exact failure was although they admitted all three engines failed for the same reason. According to HD, the fourth engine doesn't have any upgraded parts relating to the previous failures.

So, he's gone through three engines on three different brands of oil. The fourth engine running Redline has not blown up even though it has more high speed miles than the other three collectively. Can any conclusions be drawn from this? Probably none other than the fact that the engine running Redline hasn't puked its guts out.

I think since 99.99% of Harley riders do 45MPH on poker runs and never blow engines, the company just kept replacing engines instead of admitting that the motor's antique design can't handle extended top speed runs.

P.S.: If you think this is a made up story, ask the service guys at Antelope Valley Harley Davidson in Lancaster, CA about Mark, the guy with a 1200 Sportster and a Ducati 996 who has blown three engines.
 
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I believe that a good quality HDEO diesel oil such as Rotella, Delo, or Delvac would be awesome in you HD 96er.

The advantage to the big HD engines is that the oil ONLY circulates in the engine; no tranny or clutch to worry about. So the oil only has to concentrate on the engine. Sure, it's air cooled and not liquid cooled. But I don't think that the oil get's much hotter in the HD engine than a typical turbo-diesel truck, which sends the oil into the exhaust heated turbo bearings, while under a hard pull with a load such as a travel trailer. Seriously, a typical HD engine is no harder on oil than a turbo-diesel.

My friend has a couple of HD's; a Springer, and an Electra Glide Standard. He has oil temp gage dipsticks installed. His typical temp range while in motion on the the back roads is around 200-210 degF. Only while stopped for long periods in traffic does it rise; sometimes up to 240 degF or so. That's not outrageous.

I have tried, often unsuccessfully, to convince HD riders that a quality conventional HDEO is the way to go. Typically better oil than the HD brand, at a way better price.

And warranty (which is only 1 year, typically) shouldn't be an issue because they admit up front that HDEO is an acceptable alternative. Harley-Davidson oil is nothing special; in fact, it's quite ordinary, really. Look up some of the past VOA's.

HD thrives on brand loyality. In fact, they make as much money on merchandising (branded name sales such as shirts, hats, coffee mugs, clocks, playing cards, etc) as they do on bikes. The loyality to HD runs deep in many people. They will buy anything HD because they have been trained (or brainwashed, in my opinion) to believe that HD is simply the "best" of everything.

The choice is up to you. $10/quart for average oil, or $2.50 a quart for premium HDEO; which do you prefer? BTW - their oil filters are nothing special either, unless by special you mean "overpriced". Get a black or chrome Wix and be happy there, too.
 
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I just took a sample last night on my Buell (based off a sportser engine) using Amsoil AME 15w40 HDEO. I question as well will the HDEO protect a hot running air cooled motor. FYI the buell xb models have a temp sensor in the rear head. They also have a oil cooler and a fan that turns on when the rear head reaches 428 degrees F. So you can see these engine produce some crazy temps.
 
Originally Posted By: MrCPU


Otherwise, just using straight car oil would always be OK, yet they have "motorcycle formulations". Which may just also be marketing...

Who knows.


Pablo probably knows...
 
Originally Posted By: MrCPU
I guess the on ething I'm not sure on is if the HDEO oils work properly with a wet clutch (in my case), I don't think Harley has the same issue.




The Harley's also have wet clutches.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3


The choice is up to you. $10/quart for average oil, or $2.50 a quart for premium HDEO; which do you prefer? BTW - their oil filters are nothing special either, unless by special you mean "overpriced". Get a black or chrome Wix and be happy there, too.


If you're talking about HD oil, it is average. If you're talking about $10 Amsoil or M1, it is not average oil.
 
HD provides a standard two year, unlimited mile warranty.

Muleskinner - look in your owner's manual for the temperature .vs viscosity chart. In your area I believe that an xx-50 oil is a better choice.

The 96's run a bit hotter than the 88's... then the 80's....

Havoline 20w-50 may be a cost-effective solution for you

HD-Havoline_20w-50_Thread

Or, you could use the Mobil 1 Synthetic "Truck & SUV" 15w-50 silver cap ( or more $$$ for the gold cap) which is available at your local chain store for about 20 bucks for a 5-quart jug.

Mobil1_15w-50_VOA

Also - here's the VOA on HD Formula+ (that stuff they recommend for your transmission and primary chaincase). Pretty pricey for what (isn't) in there. Just put a quart of conventional xx-40 or xx-50 motor oil in the primary (many of us just use Castrol or Havoline or Rotella)

VOA-for_HD-Formula+

And....while I'm at it - get a quart of conventional 75w-90 GL-5 and dump it in the transmission.

Opinions by Kevin - your mileage may vary.

55892006_Road_King.JPG
 
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I can say with certainty that Rotella T does *not* have any friction modifiers that would adversely affect wet clutch operations. It is perfectly compatible with wet clutch operations.

I would assume Delvac and Delo are the same.

Further, I know that Rotella T 15W-40 CJ-4 was tested by Shell and it passed the JASO-MA friction test. Near as I can figure, Rotella T 15W-40 CJ-4 meets JASO-MA, if that's important to anyone.

Amsoil and Mobil 1 MC oils are very good oils. But it does not necessarily follow that other oils are inappropriate for motorcycles ... particularly any water-cooled motorcycle operated under what approximates normal conditions. Air cooled bikes do present an additional strain given the potential for heat build-up ... but I do believe a quality HDEO will handle it under most circumstances. A synthetic HDEO will protect against extremes.

But as was said before ... your call. Use the oil that helps you sleep better at night.
 
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"It was amusing to watch HD replace three engines. They wouldn't tell my friend what the exact failure was although they admitted all three engines failed for the same reason."

This, and their pricing is why H.D. has never been on my list of must-haves. They charge exorbitant (IMO) prices for bikes that need serious updating to the powertrains. I don't see the attraction.
 
Originally Posted By: blackcherry06
"It was amusing to watch HD replace three engines. They wouldn't tell my friend what the exact failure was although they admitted all three engines failed for the same reason."

This, and their pricing is why H.D. has never been on my list of must-haves. They charge exorbitant (IMO) prices for bikes that need serious updating to the powertrains. I don't see the attraction.

And it probably was *not* directly related to the specific oil used.

H-D are geniuses at brand loyalty marketing. I think that much has to be given to them. I don't know anyone who says their engineering is best-of-breed. But for many, that doesn't matter. It's the "total experience" thing, and for that many are willing to spend the extra money.

For what it's worth, I'm not one of them. I like the look of H-D well enough, but in general my tastes run *away* from cruisers and I'm not willing to pay the premium for a nameplate.
 
For those of you that aren't familar with Harley engines...
There are three 'fills'.

1. Crankcase
2. Transmission
3. Primary chaincase (w/clutch basket)

A Harley lower end turns on roller bearings, and the valve train is pushrod and rocker arm. The crankcase is separate and typically takes three quarts. Another quart for the primary and a quart for the transmission.

Many use a synthetic 20w-50 (or semi-synthetic) in all three fills - for simplicity. In this application the more common choices are Amsoil 20w-50 MCF, Mobil 1 V-Twin, and the Genuine HD "Syn3" semi-synthetic (and others). There is still heated argument about using motor oil in the transmission and there are HD mechanics that advise against it. Maybe they have a good reason, and maybe they just hate change.

At ten bucks a quart it's a $65 oil change (counting the filter).

....and they say that motor oil prices are on the rise (again).

The general rule of thumb is 2.5-3k OCIs with dino oil and 5k OCIs with synthetic. Primary/transmission @ 5K (dino) or primary at 10K (synthetic) and transmission @ 20K (synthetic)

OR ANNUALLY - whichever comes first.
 
Originally Posted By: MULESKINNER
I need a professional opinion from an "oil guru type" regarding engine oil for my 07 HD 96" V-Twin. I now use M1 V-Twin 20W/50 synthetic in my engine. I know this is most likely the best oil made for the bike, except for Amsoil. But, the stuff is almost $10.00 per quart now. In the HD manual it states if you can't get HD oil, one can use a diesel grade oil until you can get HD oil.

Now my question is why wouldn't Delo 15/40 work just fine in my engine? I live and ride mostly in the hot So Cal desert. I would think a diesel grade HD oil such as Delo would work just fine. Besides, Delo is around $11.00 per gallon. That's a large difference in price. Anyone?



M1 vtwin oil is a great oil, yet it is pricey. Wha are your drain intervals? I hope you are getting your moneys worth using the oil and not dumping it early.

Rotella, mobil delvac 1300, delo 400 will all be fine for you.
 
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Ooooops - if you have one of these then the transmission and primary/clutch share the same oil. The crankcase is still separate.


Or one of these with the same motor but about twice the power.

IMG_3000.jpg
 
I would not use any oil in a TC96 besides a 20w50 synthetic because of the heat issues associated with that engine. The only exception being Mobil115w50 from Walmart which I would change at 3500-4000 miles.
 
OK, that's not fair. What is that? A Buell Lightning XB12STT ????????

OK, OK..... how about THIS one? A little more power than your Buell and at least TWICE the WEIGHT. Does yours have reverse? HA!


hehehehe.........
grin2.gif


Wait...... now where was I??????

5589Smokey_Mountains.JPG
 
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon


I would assume Delvac and Delo are the same.



Delo 400 LE
Moly 65

SRT
Moly 2

Supertech
Moly 3

M 1300delvac
Moly 41

all from my own uoa's.
 
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