Motor Oil/Hydraulic Oil/Differences?

[LargeCarManX2]

I just aquired an old 1966 Case Compact Tractor that is a hydraulic run and hydraulic driven gear box. It calls for a 20w40 Motor Oil of MS or DM Service Classification Oil that has passed the AMA Test Sequences of I,II,III.

Question... is this a non-detergent motor oil or a special type of motor oil? And would it be wise to stay with this type/grade of motor oil or switch up to a SAE 50wt Hydraulic oil? If there is such a grade or what grade hydraulic oil would you use?

 

[bruce381]

MS is/was a API SC.

DM was/is a API CC, both are LOW to none
detergent (more like a AW hydro oil).

I would just go to a with a ISO 100 AW Hydraulic Oil (30wt)
Or if you like real heavy a ISO 150 AW Hydrualic Oil (40wt)

bruce

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Thank you Bruce!

 

[widman]

It should really use one of the multipurpose tractor fluids. It has a lot of the additives of a motor oil and absorbs moisture rather than settle it out as a regular hydraulic oil. It also has better anti-wear (normally a GL-4). A hydraulic oil will typically have 300 ppm of zinc, vs 1200 or so for a good tractor oil.
If it has wet brakes or clutches the tractor fluid will eliminate chatter and excess wear of these surfaces.

 

[bruce381]

UTF is not what was speced for this unit thus its use MAY cause slipping of any clutches if any but you are correct a UTF fluid will have much higher load carrying and wear protection than a hydralic oil will.
bruce

 

[onion]

There are quite a few skidsteers out there (including Case and Deere) that use motor oil in the hydraulic system. I've seen them call for 10w40, 10w30, and 15w40, depending on year, make, model, and operating conditions. If that was my tractor, I'd be running 15w40 motor oil in it.

But a UTF certainly won't hurt anything.

 

[George Bynum]

Originally Posted By: onion
There are quite a few skidsteers out there (including Case and Deere) that use motor oil in the hydraulic system. I've seen them call for 10w40, 10w30, and 15w40, depending on year, make, model, and operating conditions. If that was my tractor, I'd be running 15w40 motor oil in it.

But a UTF certainly won't hurt anything.

The most significant characteristic that differs between a "motor" oil and a "hydraulic" oil are the emulsifiers. In most hydraulic applications, we want for the water to fall to the bottom, not get mixed where, at high pressures, it will increase erosion. Motor oil is changed to get rind of the emulsified water (and other "crud"). If it is used in hydraulic applications, I'd change it at the engine change interval, or maybe every other. A good AW fluid, not overheated, kept dry and clean, would probably last the life of a mobile machine.

At least 1 ATF (Mobil 1) used to be rated as passing the Denison and Vickers tests. I've not seen an engine oil rated; that does not say they would not pass if tested. The issue would be the emulsified water which would not show in the test procedure.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Hello George, good to have you on the Board. I see your field is in ElectroHydraulic applications. Can you expand a little on what you do daily in your field of expertise?

Again, WELCOME

LCM

 

[George Bynum]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Hello George, good to have you on the Board. I see your field is in ElectroHydraulic applications. Can you expand a little on what you do daily in your field of expertise?


The majority of my work is in assisting industrial facilities improve processes, and diagnose problems. I support several fluid power distributors in commissioning and in power unit and hydraulic systems design.

"Daily" would probably best be to troubleshoot problems. I've found few to be fluid related. I've found many to be water and air in fluid related ... air causing immediate symptoms.

 

[Jim Allen]

By UTF, are you guys are talking about Trans Hydraulic Fluid (THF)? Or something else?

I've been using THF (a 10W-20 grade) in some chain drive transfer cases (with lubricating oil pumps) as a more robust alternative to ATF. Thus far I don't notice a difference, one way other another. I had large amounts of THF around and couldn't think of any reason why it wouldn't work.

 

[Steve S]

I used it in my service van for years when I worked at the forklift dealership. I think it could be a great manual trans fluid.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
I think it could be a great manual trans fluid.


Not really.

The three most important considerations in mtl applications are correct viscosity, correct level of AW/EP additive, and friction modifier.

The friction modifier's in UTF's or THF's are not suited for mtl's.

 

[Jim Allen]

Mola: If you're still here, would you clarify the difference between UTF and THF, please?

 

[tdi-rick]

Interesting.
I have an old Fiat 550 tractor that also calls for engine oil (20W-40) in the gearbox and hydraulics and it appears these share the same supply.
I asked on here a few years ago about using a 75/80w-90 GL-4/5 and the consensus was it might not be the best idea.

We tend to use Castrol Agri MP Plus, a GL-4/engine oil with a vapour phase inhibitor in this circuit.

Watching with interest.

 

[MolaKule]

Hi Jim Allen,

here is the link to THF;
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530398#Post530398

UTF or Universal Tractor FLuid, was supposed to be a universal fluid for use across international boundaries and to reduce lube inventories.

UTF fulfills the torque transfer, hydraulic, and power. and transmission requirements of farm tractors and implements

For example John Deere, Case and others had slightly different THF specs and one UTF is supposed to replace all these disparate fluids.

It is supposed to be about a 7.3 to 9.5 cSt viscosity fluid with hi VI, improved shudder resistance, improved moisture tolerance, better anti-foam, improved thermal characteristics, and improved oxidation stability over THF's.

http://www.renewablelube.com/products/pdf/Bio-Hydrostatic Fluid.pdf

http://www.amref.com/bp_pb/7352_BP_UTF_PB.pdf

http://www.americanoilsupply.com/tds/24_utf.pdf

http://www.uslubricants.com/products/tractor.htm

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/products/amsoil_ath_tractor_hydraulic_transmission_oil.htm

http://www.peaklubricants.com/spec_sheets/PEAK Tractor Fluid.pdf

 

[bruce381]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Mola: If you're still here, would you clarify the difference between UTF and THF, please?


Just t ways to say same thing

UTF universal tractor fluid
THF tractor hydraulic fluid

same oil depends on whos advertising it
bruce

 

[Jim Allen]

Mola: Wonderful answer! Thank you! Should've seen that in my BITOG search but for some reason it didn't come up.

Bruce: Kinda figured that but it's nice to see in confirmed.

I have been using THF in chain drive transfer cases and it seems to work well there.