I need an upstream oxygen sensor for the Saturn. AutoZone offers the Bosch OE style and Denso OE style sensors. Price is within a few bucks. Which one is better?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Bosch vs. Denso Oxygen Sensors
- Thread starter The Critic
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I haven't seen a lot of cars left by the side of the road from bad Bosch O2 sensors.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I haven't seen a lot of cars left by the side of the road from bad Bosch O2 sensors.
Do you install Bosch oxygen sensors exclusively at your shop? I want the part to last as long as the OE one did and provide the same fuel economy.
Also, in this application, the Bosch OE style sensor is recommended for this application only. The part number is not shared with any other vehicle; it is for 95-02 Saturn S-Series only. This is very unusual as Bosch OE sensors are often made for a variety of applications. Does this means that the Bosch sensor would be a good choice in this case given that it is made specifically for this application and no other one?
I haven't seen a lot of cars left by the side of the road from bad Bosch O2 sensors.
Do you install Bosch oxygen sensors exclusively at your shop? I want the part to last as long as the OE one did and provide the same fuel economy.
Also, in this application, the Bosch OE style sensor is recommended for this application only. The part number is not shared with any other vehicle; it is for 95-02 Saturn S-Series only. This is very unusual as Bosch OE sensors are often made for a variety of applications. Does this means that the Bosch sensor would be a good choice in this case given that it is made specifically for this application and no other one?
JHZR2
Staff member
There are two types of Bosch sensors... the "grey box" that are sold at autozone, and which are universal or near-universal. Sometimes you have to splice the connectors, sometimes it has a correct connector.
The "yellow box" has been in my experience, an OE Bosch part, with the correct connector and exactly like the original. These are generally a few dollars more.
What is the brand on the car originally?
JMH
The "yellow box" has been in my experience, an OE Bosch part, with the correct connector and exactly like the original. These are generally a few dollars more.
What is the brand on the car originally?
JMH
I've had OK luck with Bosch OE sensors, but indeed who is the OEM?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
There are two types of Bosch sensors... the "grey box" that are sold at autozone, and which are universal or near-universal. Sometimes you have to splice the connectors, sometimes it has a correct connector.
The "yellow box" has been in my experience, an OE Bosch part, with the correct connector and exactly like the original. These are generally a few dollars more.
What is the brand on the car originally?
JMH
I said in my original post OE style sensors, so I'm referring to the plug-in type that does not require any crimping.
I'm not sure what brand is OE on GM vehicles--I'm not home at the moment. What brand is OE on your truck?
There are two types of Bosch sensors... the "grey box" that are sold at autozone, and which are universal or near-universal. Sometimes you have to splice the connectors, sometimes it has a correct connector.
The "yellow box" has been in my experience, an OE Bosch part, with the correct connector and exactly like the original. These are generally a few dollars more.
What is the brand on the car originally?
JMH
I said in my original post OE style sensors, so I'm referring to the plug-in type that does not require any crimping.
I'm not sure what brand is OE on GM vehicles--I'm not home at the moment. What brand is OE on your truck?
Probably Delphi, I've seen oxygen sensors with a purple/violet wire on GM vehicles before:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jcgebhart/o2sens.html
My Saab looks like it has a Bosch sensor.
http://home.earthlink.net/~jcgebhart/o2sens.html
My Saab looks like it has a Bosch sensor.
Quote:
Also, in this application, the Bosch OE style sensor is recommended for this application only. The part number is not shared with any other vehicle; it is for 95-02 Saturn S-Series only. This is very unusual as Bosch OE sensors are often made for a variety of applications. Does this means that the Bosch sensor would be a good choice in this case given that it is made specifically for this application and no other one?
The reason is the S-series engines use a single wire O2 sensor with no preheater. Most vehicles, especially after OBD-II mandate in 1996, use a 4 wire O2 sensor with a preheater.
Also, in this application, the Bosch OE style sensor is recommended for this application only. The part number is not shared with any other vehicle; it is for 95-02 Saturn S-Series only. This is very unusual as Bosch OE sensors are often made for a variety of applications. Does this means that the Bosch sensor would be a good choice in this case given that it is made specifically for this application and no other one?
The reason is the S-series engines use a single wire O2 sensor with no preheater. Most vehicles, especially after OBD-II mandate in 1996, use a 4 wire O2 sensor with a preheater.
Well in all fairness Bosch did invent the Oxgen sensor and modern electronic fuel injection. Maybe I should not say invent but made it practical and cost effective. In fact Toyota's first fuel injection systems where liscensed from Bosch. I have a Bosch replacement O2 sensor as the first sensor in my setup on the 2003 Camry. I too got it from Autozone. In fact every single O2 sensor that has ever been replaced on our vechiles have been Bosch witht he exception of one under waranty on my Dads tacoma and Moms Tundra. It has been my experince that you get about 50,000-80,000 miles on average before either the sensor goes bad or the wirehaness for the sensor goes bad. That holds true for the OEM ones and aftermarket. Sure I have had a few go 150,000 miles but those are rare!!!!
P.S. Since Dad retired fromt he Army he has been driveing Tractor Trailer. Well they closed down the terminal where he is working from for the most part so traffic is down. He was parked their for about 10 days. SOmeone stole his catalytic converter and two of his O2 sensors. They cut the exhaust with a saw but un hooked the O2 sensors carefully. This was on his 1995.5 Tacoma. The exhaust pipe while it had some very slight surface rust was just as sound,solid and thick as the day it was bought.
P.S. Since Dad retired fromt he Army he has been driveing Tractor Trailer. Well they closed down the terminal where he is working from for the most part so traffic is down. He was parked their for about 10 days. SOmeone stole his catalytic converter and two of his O2 sensors. They cut the exhaust with a saw but un hooked the O2 sensors carefully. This was on his 1995.5 Tacoma. The exhaust pipe while it had some very slight surface rust was just as sound,solid and thick as the day it was bought.
50-80K is why I don't like Bosch. The Denso will last longer than that.
O2 sensors do not drop you on the side of the road. They slow and richen your mixture as they age and when it gets bad enough the MIL comes on and you might go open loop. The engine runs fine but the exhaust stinks something terrible.
O2 sensors do not drop you on the side of the road. They slow and richen your mixture as they age and when it gets bad enough the MIL comes on and you might go open loop. The engine runs fine but the exhaust stinks something terrible.
Severach, Ihad to replace my Denso O2 sensor and it was bad by 60,000 miles. So no Denso does not last any longer then Bosch. The problem is witht he heater circuits today they just do not hold up. We have a real problem with them here in Michigan since it gets just cold enough to make the wires brittle. THe heat cycling between hot and cold mixed in with Vibration is a recipe for failure. The ones under the car always last longer her in Michigan like 100,000 miles ormore because the heat cycle they see is no where near as extreme and the level of vibration is not as intense either. You would think that all that road salt and debrigh would kill them sooner but just the oposite. It is all about heat and vibration. I do not think we have ever had any O2 sensor not under the hood ever fail on a vechile we have owned.
I have had a Denso sensor fail on me in less than 20K kms. It was for a Mazda K-series V6 rear bank sensor. I replaced both front and rear bank sensors because the ECU threw codes to indicate both were non-responsive. 20K kms later, the code for the rear bank popped up again. Cleared it, came again. Did that a few times, and finally resigned to the fact the sensor died again.
Replaced it again with another Denso, and traded in the car not too long afterwards. Original sensors on the car were NTK.
Replaced it again with another Denso, and traded in the car not too long afterwards. Original sensors on the car were NTK.
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Went with Bosch "OE style." It was $64.99 at AutoZone. brianl703 was correct that Bosch sensors are "fatter" than many other brands, but luckily it wasn't an issue in my application. The sensor also came with a generous "glob" of anti-seize on the threads, in fact way too much IMO, but it was nice that I did not have to buy my own.
The car runs much smoother, feels more peppy, and I no longer have a gas odor during start-up.
The car runs much smoother, feels more peppy, and I no longer have a gas odor during start-up.
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You don't have a can of NEVER-SEIZE? Get one. It's a nearly a lifetime supply. Do it before it gets stuck with some inflation thingie. Being a tightwad also requires some sense of avoided costs.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
The car runs much smoother, feels more peppy, and I no longer have a gas odor during start-up.
So a bad o2 sensor causes a gas smell during startup? My dad's van has had that smell for a while and I've always thought it was normal.
The car runs much smoother, feels more peppy, and I no longer have a gas odor during start-up.
So a bad o2 sensor causes a gas smell during startup? My dad's van has had that smell for a while and I've always thought it was normal.
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Originally Posted By: The Critic
The car runs much smoother, feels more peppy, and I no longer have a gas odor during start-up.
So a bad o2 sensor causes a gas smell during startup? My dad's van has had that smell for a while and I've always thought it was normal.
I usually smell some gas as I leave the garage, but I didn't smell any as I left the garage after doing the repair. I'll know for sure when I do a cold start tomorrow morning.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
The car runs much smoother, feels more peppy, and I no longer have a gas odor during start-up.
So a bad o2 sensor causes a gas smell during startup? My dad's van has had that smell for a while and I've always thought it was normal.
I usually smell some gas as I leave the garage, but I didn't smell any as I left the garage after doing the repair. I'll know for sure when I do a cold start tomorrow morning.
That's an odd coincidence, the computer is in open-loop during startup and during warmup, the O2 sensor is out of the decision making loop during that time.
Not quite.
The computer alters the tables it uses in open loop based on what happened in closed loop. If the O2 sensor called for more fuel in closed loop, the computer will add more fuel in open loop.
The computer alters the tables it uses in open loop based on what happened in closed loop. If the O2 sensor called for more fuel in closed loop, the computer will add more fuel in open loop.
UPDATE:
It has been 10,000 miles since I installed the Bosch "OE style" upstream oxygen sensor. The CEL has NOT returned.
Also, after my recent thermostat replacement, I got 38 mpg on a highway trip. I haven't seen 38 mpg on this car for more than five years.
Maybe the OE sensor is better, but the Bosch definitely isn't doing any harm.
It has been 10,000 miles since I installed the Bosch "OE style" upstream oxygen sensor. The CEL has NOT returned.
Also, after my recent thermostat replacement, I got 38 mpg on a highway trip. I haven't seen 38 mpg on this car for more than five years.
Maybe the OE sensor is better, but the Bosch definitely isn't doing any harm.
O2 sensor aren't rocket science, I've used Walker O2 sensor in my Integra and Corolla for more than 4 years and 60k miles each and they are both holding up fine. IMO unless you care about the very last 10% of their useful life O2 sensors are all pretty good nowadays, and when it reaches the last 10% of its life, just change it out instead of worrying about brand x is better than brand y.
BTW, the reason why most O2 at the bottom of the car (right in front of the CAT) last longer than the one under the hood right after the exhaust manifold is the HEAT. O2 last longer when it is further away from extreme heat in the exhaust gas, but having it warm up faster makes fuel economy better, the trade off today is to have its own heating element and further away from the heat, so it last longer and still have quick warm up.
BTW, the reason why most O2 at the bottom of the car (right in front of the CAT) last longer than the one under the hood right after the exhaust manifold is the HEAT. O2 last longer when it is further away from extreme heat in the exhaust gas, but having it warm up faster makes fuel economy better, the trade off today is to have its own heating element and further away from the heat, so it last longer and still have quick warm up.
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