Recent Topics
Philips 9012 in '05 Corolla?
by lukejo
12 minutes 18 seconds ago
new GM 4.3L V-6
by used_0il
Today at 03:02 AM
2015 Accord Hybrid
by Ewag2983
Today at 02:24 AM
Sausage
by Charlie1935
Today at 12:00 AM
Storing Car in Storage Facility
by cutlassvillager
Yesterday at 11:51 PM
04 santa fe 3.5l, info re oil/miles is unknown
by chado_skins
Yesterday at 11:47 PM
Mobil 1 0w-40 OK for Winter in VQ35HR?
by cutlassvillager
Yesterday at 11:29 PM
Pardner Protector
by buck91
Yesterday at 10:54 PM
Vortec 4.3l v6 oil recommendation
by gmgoodwrencher
Yesterday at 10:53 PM
Oil change or wait??
by Rolla07
Yesterday at 10:38 PM
VW Oil Conversation - why 40 weight?
by SandCastle
Yesterday at 10:04 PM
Big Buddy
by buck91
Yesterday at 09:33 PM
Newest Members
Thourun, Zach72, SandCastle, ymc226, redwoods73
51758 Registered Users
Who's Online
42 registered (bigt61, 2010_FX4, asiancivicmaniac, 05LGTLtd, 3800Series, 01_celica_gt, 3 invisible), 669 Guests and 143 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51758 Members
64 Forums
221446 Topics
3501929 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1157746 - 05/23/08 11:10 PM Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4
pickled Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: The Rocky Mountains
Folks,

I can't talk much about what or when, but this is an interesting curve. If you know algebra substitution is your friend. Multiple UOA's per engine can give you powerful data...
[url=Popular CJ-4]CJ-4 Oil Reserve Alkalinity[/url]


Edited by pickled (05/23/08 11:16 PM)
_________________________
Used gear lube and burnt ATF is all the cologne a real man will ever need!
Too many toys and automotive parts to list...

Top
#1158381 - 05/25/08 02:25 AM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: pickled]
pickled Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: The Rocky Mountains
FYI- there are 3 different vehicles of the same year and delivery date comprising this graph. Similar loading and routing make wear patterns understandable and consistent within the context of an entire fleet.


Edited by pickled (05/25/08 02:39 AM)
_________________________
Used gear lube and burnt ATF is all the cologne a real man will ever need!
Too many toys and automotive parts to list...

Top
#1163452 - 06/01/08 09:31 AM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: pickled]
JAG Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4532
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
That's cool. Thanks for posting. I notice that on BITOG when something good and technical gets posted, few people say anything about it. What's up with that?

The trend is linear in this data. The lowest TBN is approx. 4. Is that because 4 was the condemnation limit or is there some other reason?

Top
#1163571 - 06/01/08 01:42 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: JAG]
pickled Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: The Rocky Mountains
Hey Jag,

Thanks for your encouragement. This last study we performed ended at TBN 4 because one of the vehicles developed a coolant leak and a second vehicle had an unquantified amount of a "Flying J" top-up oil added to it...this was the first time I ever heard of one of this company's drivers even checking the oil let alone adding some by themselves! In light of these external influences we pulled the plug on data collection. FYI- The third vehicle did stay within the current prediction equation confidence intervals down to TBN of 1.7. At that point the lubricant and full flow were changed. Take it easy, I think I'm going to go drain a transmission or something.
_________________________
Used gear lube and burnt ATF is all the cologne a real man will ever need!
Too many toys and automotive parts to list...

Top
#1163595 - 06/01/08 02:27 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: pickled]
bruce381 Offline


Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3324
Loc: Millbrae, CA
looks like you could go 18-20K or so.
bruce

Top
#1163741 - 06/01/08 07:21 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: bruce381]
pickled Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: The Rocky Mountains
You nailed it bruce. The only problem that we have is that the CI-4+ oil (same brand name) interval (backed by good historical data) was 25,000 using the same quality of fuel and operating conditions. It was hard to break it to these guys that their old interval was allowing a bit more pain to be felt by the motor...oh well at least data doesn't usually lie.
_________________________
Used gear lube and burnt ATF is all the cologne a real man will ever need!
Too many toys and automotive parts to list...

Top
#1163776 - 06/01/08 08:29 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: pickled]
allan5oh Offline


Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 225
Loc: Winnipeg, mb
Do you find the lower sulfur content of ULSD slows down TBN erosion?

Top
#1163894 - 06/01/08 11:42 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: allan5oh]
pickled Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: The Rocky Mountains
Hello Allan5oh,

We did notice that the switch to ULSD changed the slope of the line a bit on the CI-4+ oils. Where a typical class 8 from this group would normally intercept a TBN of 1.5 at 23,000 miles with a steady diet of 500 ppm diesel the new intercept was at 25,400 miles with ULSD. It would be interesting to run a class 8 with CJ-4 in the sump drinking down 500 ppm diesel and see how quickly it loses its alkalinity reserves. This certainly is interesting stuff to get to work with that's for sure!
_________________________
Used gear lube and burnt ATF is all the cologne a real man will ever need!
Too many toys and automotive parts to list...

Top
#1164200 - 06/02/08 03:32 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: pickled]
allan5oh Offline


Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 225
Loc: Winnipeg, mb
Only 10%? I expected a lot more.

Seems as though engines with EGR go through the TBN much faster.

Top
#1164237 - 06/02/08 04:53 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: allan5oh]
pickled Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: The Rocky Mountains
Increased EGR in diesels really stomps the guts out of an oil! Non-EGR CAT engines comparatively were MUCH kinder to the oil then the Cummins ISM and ISX's were.
_________________________
Used gear lube and burnt ATF is all the cologne a real man will ever need!
Too many toys and automotive parts to list...

Top
#1181879 - 06/29/08 12:13 AM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: pickled]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46694
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Great information - on one hand this is not unexpected, CJ-4 is a purpose build spec that is only partially reverse compatible. On the other hand, maybe some of the companies will start looking at more advanced additives (read: cost) to help retain TBN but not foul cats, particulate separation systems, etc.


Wow - I totally missed this thread before. I only saw it because it was linked in another CJ-4 thread.

Top
#1181902 - 06/29/08 12:43 AM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: Pablo]
pickled Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: The Rocky Mountains
Thanks Pablo ! I hope that you are correct and the second generation of CJ-4 formulas step it up a little bit on the additive side. I'm sure our friends at Lubrizol would love to sell them the "good stuff". I'd sure like to post some other cool info for folks to check out, but the pesky confidentiality agreements I continuously have to sign are pretty limiting. It just bothers me that we were all sent the loud message..."No difference convert everything and don't think about it" and the field data says "It IS different". Oh well, in the end it makes for yet another interesting subject for us to kick around here on BITOG as other people just turn the key and go!
_________________________
Used gear lube and burnt ATF is all the cologne a real man will ever need!
Too many toys and automotive parts to list...

Top
#1215844 - 08/14/08 09:47 AM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: pickled]
JAG Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4532
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
pickled, have you been able to get any of the used oil TBN data for any 5W-40 synthetic CJ-4 oils? Thanks.

Top
#1215970 - 08/14/08 01:13 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: JAG]
pickled Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: The Rocky Mountains
Not to any significant detail yet Jag...just one off stuff here and there. A lot of folks in fleets I work with are staying the course with dino cj-4 for a while because they don't have the cashflow to buy the even more expensive synthetic formulations. I did here of one operator of mine who is ready to try some Delo 5W40 vs. some of the Amsoil formulations. I need to get my data vampire into that project for sure. Will let you know if I see anything soon...if diesel prices continue to decline then there will be some folks back in the lubrication hunt. After talking with a few of my fleet guys they are saying that if diesel hits $3.65/gallon they are locking in a full year's supply that day!! We'll see if this price point ever materializes this year, but I thought that was pretty wild.
_________________________
Used gear lube and burnt ATF is all the cologne a real man will ever need!
Too many toys and automotive parts to list...

Top
#1216027 - 08/14/08 02:17 PM Re: Reserve Alkalinity Loss Popular CJ-4 [Re: pickled]
JAG Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4532
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks for the reply pickled!

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >