VW Manual Trans Gear Oil "Lifetime Fill?" Bull****

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So about 10,000 miles ago I went to my local VW dealer to get 3 liters of manual transmission oil for my VW Passat. Factory fill is a synthetic gear lube, 75W90. They tell me at the counter that they never sell this stuff, it's lifetime fill, but they can order it.

So, at 99,901 miles, I finally change my gear oil. Here's the results from Blackstone labs:

toa.JPG


As you can see, this gear lube was done for in the end. Should have probably been changed at 50k, which I will do when this car hits 150k in about 2 years. Hopefully no permanent damage was done.

So far, the 2nd gear synchro is real unhappy with the cold weather, which I understand is a trait of this tranny- it shifts like chewing through crunchy peanut butter until it warms up, but it has always done this since new.

Anybody else see anything interesting in the analysis that I'm not seeing?
 
The oil wasn't originally a 75W90. A 75W90 would thin to less than 9cst even after nearly 100,000 miles.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with this analysis. Too bad we don't have a TAN number. A lot of this wear is just wear from the break-in period.
 
Wow that stuff did pretty good. I also doubt this started at a full 20 cSt 75W-90. Could have been about 15 cSt, though. Nothing to sweat, change it out, move on......lifetime fill is just marketing stuff.
 
Yeah, it did good. But, even a thick gear oil could shear that much, especially a cheap OE lowest bid assembly line fill.
VW has several MTFs. Since noone knows what is being factory installed, vs. what is used for maintenance, I wouldn't worry about it. What PN did you refill with?
 
What year is your Passat? Mine is an '03 and it uses G052 911. I posted a virgin sample on here and the viscosity was 14.5 cst at 100c. There is a VW gear lube with that viscosity, but I think it goes in the transverse mounted tranny. I'm currently running Redline MT-90 and it does as good or better in the cold as the VW juice and is smoother shifting when hot.
 
The standard fill for MT gear oil in VW's has been VW G50/G51 GL-4 which is 15.6 cSt (probably a 75W-90).

Many of the newer fills for MT's (~ 2004 on) are either …

VW G-052-171-A2
VW G-055-726-A2

… which are ~ 6.4 cSt gear oils …!!!.

These figures are from some VOA's they ran at tdiclub.com. In fact, even for some older (pre -2004) vehicles, if the MT was making a whining sound (under certain conditions) they recommended changing the MT fluid to the newer 052/055 fluids. There is a long thread about this at … tdiclub

Here are some VOA's they ran on various gear oils …

(Manual Tranny Fluids)
16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 GL-4/-5
15.6 = VW G50/G51 GL-4
15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 GL-4
15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90 GL-5
15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90 GL-4/-5
15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90 GL-4/-5
14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90 GL-5
13.8 = Amsoil MTG 75-90 GL-4
10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 GL-4
9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler) None
9.08 = Penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid None
7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
6.5 = VW G-052-171-A2 None
6.38 = VW G-055-726-A2 None
6.3 = VW G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601) None


(Automatic Tranny Fluids - except for Redline D4 dual-use)
8.3 = Honda CVT Fluid
7.6 = Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF
7.5 = AMSOIL Automatic transmission fluid ATF
7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
7.4 = Mobil 1 Synthetic Dexron/Mercon
7.2 = Redline Synthetic ATF Dexron II / Mercon
7.1 = Mobil 1 Synthetic Multi-vehicle ATF
7.1 = AMSOIL Ford type F auto trans fluid
5.5-6 = Ford Mercon SP

Over on some of the VW forums there are a fair amount of people using Synchromesh fluids like Pennzoil (~ 9.08 cSt) in their MT's that specified 75W-90 or 80W-90 gear oils -- with good results -- mainly to improve shifting quality (particularly in cold weather).

I think the 75W-90 GL-4 gear oils tend to be too thick for light duty MT's (cars), and are more suited for rear differentials or more severe duty transmissions in trucks. Given that VW is now using a 6.4 cSt MT gear oil -- and has even back spe'cd it, I think a good case can be made that one shouldn't have a problem with MT longevity with a fluid like Synchromesh. Although, I would be probably be inclined to change the fluid out every 50k miles or so.

My 1987 Jetta specifies 80W-90 GL-4 fluid for the 5-spd MT. These heavier viscosity MT fluids (~ 15.0 cSt) not only make for lousy shift quality, they are a total joke in the cold weather here (hits -30C or lower in the dead of winter). Even tried a synthetic 75W-90, and it still felt very thick in the winter.

There were a fair amount of cars in the 1980 -90's that specified 10W-30 motor oil in the MT's, and they seemed to last without issues as long as the oil was changed at reasonable intervals. Last summer I put in a 60/40 mix of (5W-30 motor oil/ 75W-90 GL-4/5) -- couldn't find any Synchromesh. My thinking was that I wanted some EP additives in the mix rather than straight 5W-30 motor oil -- but I wanted soemthing thinner and with better cold weather performance. My mix would be a little higher viscosity than Synchromesh, but it has improved my shift quality tremendously compared to the previous 75W-90 oils I was using. And this winter in -25C weather, it performed very well.
 
Drivebelt, I really think it depends on if the car has a longitudinal motor mount with a hypoid gear in the transmission as opposed to a transverse mounted motor with no hypoid gear. I believe anyone who runs a hypoid gear in hot weather without a 90w (13.5 - 18.5 cSt) is asking for it.
 
That's a good point glxpassat. You would likely want to avoid the thinner Synchromesh type fluids if you have a (front-aft-longitudinal) engine setup that uses a hypoid gear set.
 
Another consideration is how much torque the motor makes. With a weeny motor, the light oil might be ok. But if it's able to set you back in your seat, the heavier oil would be the way to go for sure.
 
The car in my sig has never had it's manual transaxle fluid changed. I might just do it my next oil change.
crazy2.gif


BTW, supposedly my Saturn takes ATF in the manual gearbox. Don't mean to change the subject, but should I get it from a Saturn dealer or are there any off the shelf products you recommend? I'd rather just walk to the store than order something.

Thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: GMFan
The car in my sig has never had it's manual transaxle fluid changed. I might just do it my next oil change.
crazy2.gif


BTW, supposedly my Saturn takes ATF in the manual gearbox. Don't mean to change the subject, but should I get it from a Saturn dealer or are there any off the shelf products you recommend? I'd rather just walk to the store than order something.

Thanks.

It just takes Dexron-III. GM has a part number under the vehicle care products line-up that is labeled manual transmission lubricant.
 
Originally Posted By: GMFan
The car in my sig has never had it's manual transaxle fluid changed. I might just do it my next oil change.
crazy2.gif




i drained out the factory fill in my '08 corolla at 2200 miles and there were visible swirls inthe drained oil, refilled with coastal then drove that out to 10K and drained that (but did not check for swirls or anything) and refilled with amsoil mtg.
 
Just bought a used BMW. As usual I looked at the owners manual so I can change to good stuff. Shock horror diff and trans 'lifetime fill' with no capacity mentioned. When I mentioned to BMW master tech I use at an independent local place that I intended to change the fluids he nearly choked and blurted out "lifetime fill". Still he knew I was serios and said "whatever you get I'll do it". Went with Redline MTL which is better than stock rubbish but to thick for local winter. Dropping half a quart Friday and topping up with D4ATF. Changing diff to RL 75W90. P/S changing to D4ATF. 'Lifetime fill' is a joke and the German auto industry should be ashamed IMO.
 
I think the lifetime fill mentality is there to make it cheaper on the dealerships. That way they never have to service the tranny or diff during the warrantee period.
How many trannies or diffs are failing in 100k?
And how many BMW owners actually keep their cars past 100k?
How many used BMW's are eventually going to need new/rebuilt trannies or diffs?
wink.gif
 
I recently changed my gear oil after spilling it all over the place when changing the timing chain on my 12v VR6. Apparently I could not use the newest gear oils as they will eat through brass metals in the transmission for my 2002 Jetta. I was able to get the MT fluid easily from my dealer, albiet it cost double.
 
Do not looks just as viscosity of the VW oem fluids. I tried the non-synth G52 once, which was AWFUL, unbearable in the cold, and its like a 7cst fluid!

Factory fill years ago was G50. Good stuff but made weird noises under certain conditions in the golf/jetta.

G052-171-A2 is AWESOME! But its 30 dollars a liter!

I believe now there are new G60 and G70 fluids from VW.
 
i really dont understand these Euro cars and their lifetime fluids. i have a Benz and the ATF is also a "lifetime fluid". not only that but i dont have an ATF dipstick to check the oil level. it's all checked electronically on the dashboard. it gets worse...my parents have an 03 MB E500 and not only is there no ATF dipstick...there is no oil dipstick as well.

Mercedes finally got smart and now recommends 40k OCI for all ATFs...if i remember correctly.
 
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