OOPS!
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I wonder if this got to Ed Begley Jr. yet.
The queen of bio-fuels, Daryl Hannah, probably wouldn't even get it...
The queen of bio-fuels, Daryl Hannah, probably wouldn't even get it...
Go algae go!
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[censored] I just sprayed the algae in the 100' x 65' pond on my property with Cutrine Plus. You mean I could be making fuel with that slimey stuff?
Won't argue with the greenhouse gas numbers. Hard to even get me worked up about that part of the discussion.
But, soy oil was always a byproduct of production. Soy meal is the desired product and that left agriculture with a "what do we do with the leftover oil" problem. Some got sold for dunking turkeys in deep frier. Some of it made it into other products. Biodiesel gave it a real place to be put to use.
Check with your local ag extension office. They can let you in on this. Soybeans are not raised primarily for oil, even though there are some genetic developments being done to increase the oil content to 20%. I will agree, I would like to see Rapeseed and Algae take more of a front seat in biodiesel production. Demand for the product will make that happen hopefully.
But, soy oil was always a byproduct of production. Soy meal is the desired product and that left agriculture with a "what do we do with the leftover oil" problem. Some got sold for dunking turkeys in deep frier. Some of it made it into other products. Biodiesel gave it a real place to be put to use.
Check with your local ag extension office. They can let you in on this. Soybeans are not raised primarily for oil, even though there are some genetic developments being done to increase the oil content to 20%. I will agree, I would like to see Rapeseed and Algae take more of a front seat in biodiesel production. Demand for the product will make that happen hopefully.
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
Just let us drill and refine, we will be ok!!!
Agreed! But I want it all! I want conservation, oil drilling, coal to oil, biofuels, hydrogen, nuclear, solar, wind, etc.
It will never happen with the knotheads we send to Washington, but we need an energy program on the level of the 60's space program. We need to shoot for TOTAL energy independence within one decade. With all our technologies, it is not an unreasonable possibility. We just need the will power as a nation to do it and not a bunch of wimpering naysayers to screw the idea up. Now if we can locate individuals with a little vision to get it done and elect them and get rid of the 535 idiots we have in the legislature. Who cares who is president. Elect Micky Mouse if you want. Congress is the problem anyway.
Just let us drill and refine, we will be ok!!!
Agreed! But I want it all! I want conservation, oil drilling, coal to oil, biofuels, hydrogen, nuclear, solar, wind, etc.
It will never happen with the knotheads we send to Washington, but we need an energy program on the level of the 60's space program. We need to shoot for TOTAL energy independence within one decade. With all our technologies, it is not an unreasonable possibility. We just need the will power as a nation to do it and not a bunch of wimpering naysayers to screw the idea up. Now if we can locate individuals with a little vision to get it done and elect them and get rid of the 535 idiots we have in the legislature. Who cares who is president. Elect Micky Mouse if you want. Congress is the problem anyway.
Regarding soybean oils used for biodiesel production, the chart seems to overlook that soybean oil was always a product that came out of using soybeans as a food product for human and animal feeds. The ag industry just found a way to utilize the oil. Until then, it was a byproduct of soybean to food production. So.... maybe not that bad of an idea after all. At least we are using a byproduct and not wasting it.
Neither ethanol or biodiesel production reduce food supply. That is a myth perpetrated by those that have a ax to grind about bio fuel production. Actually, the stocks left over from ethanol production are a highly prized feed supplement that is high in protein and in large demand over straight corn feed since it is more readily digestible and absorbed into the system. Even the Vietnamese are trying to purchase all of it they can get their hands on. (check with the Farm Bureau)
Also, Soybean oil is a byproduct of feed production. Does not reduce the amount of feed available to animal or human uses.
The only way in which there might be a reduction in food is in the choices. i.e. a reduced amount of oat production due to increased land use for corn or soybeans. but then, oats is not a good cash crop anyway. It is primarily planted as a starter crop for alfalfa production. Even though, any food crop that has a demand level to make it so that it affords a reasonable return on investment to plant will have the demand met by farmers.
The ag industry is not going to waste a bit of any product. Even cow and pig blood from slaughtering is processed into powdered protein supplements. Those that have a limited ag experience only see x number of bushels of corn going to ethanol production and think that they are totally removed from the food supply. Ethanol only uses the starch and sugers from the corn and the rest is returned to the food supply. Same for any other food crop.
Regarding the green effect: when you can make switchgrass and other such things become a valued commodity that will cause farmers to put valuable crop land into switchgrass production, then it might happen.... oh, that will take cropland out of corn and soybean production and then the food supply will take a hit. Darn.... always seems to be something doesn't it.
Neither ethanol or biodiesel production reduce food supply. That is a myth perpetrated by those that have a ax to grind about bio fuel production. Actually, the stocks left over from ethanol production are a highly prized feed supplement that is high in protein and in large demand over straight corn feed since it is more readily digestible and absorbed into the system. Even the Vietnamese are trying to purchase all of it they can get their hands on. (check with the Farm Bureau)
Also, Soybean oil is a byproduct of feed production. Does not reduce the amount of feed available to animal or human uses.
The only way in which there might be a reduction in food is in the choices. i.e. a reduced amount of oat production due to increased land use for corn or soybeans. but then, oats is not a good cash crop anyway. It is primarily planted as a starter crop for alfalfa production. Even though, any food crop that has a demand level to make it so that it affords a reasonable return on investment to plant will have the demand met by farmers.
The ag industry is not going to waste a bit of any product. Even cow and pig blood from slaughtering is processed into powdered protein supplements. Those that have a limited ag experience only see x number of bushels of corn going to ethanol production and think that they are totally removed from the food supply. Ethanol only uses the starch and sugers from the corn and the rest is returned to the food supply. Same for any other food crop.
Regarding the green effect: when you can make switchgrass and other such things become a valued commodity that will cause farmers to put valuable crop land into switchgrass production, then it might happen.... oh, that will take cropland out of corn and soybean production and then the food supply will take a hit. Darn.... always seems to be something doesn't it.
Something bothers me about that chart. Using switch grass, it says around 100% of existing U.S. cropland would be needed to produce half of U.S. fuel demand. BUT... it also says one of the pros of switch grass is that it wouldn't compete with food crops.
My question is, if you used 100% of your cropland to grow switch grass, where then would food crops be grown? It seems like it couldn't help but compete with food crops under that scenario.
My question is, if you used 100% of your cropland to grow switch grass, where then would food crops be grown? It seems like it couldn't help but compete with food crops under that scenario.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Actually, the stocks left over from ethanol production are a highly prized feed supplement that is high in protein and in large demand over straight corn feed since it is more readily digestible and absorbed into the system.
This is something that I wish more people would understand. Grains that are used for ethanol production are not grains that are 100% lost for food production.
Actually, the stocks left over from ethanol production are a highly prized feed supplement that is high in protein and in large demand over straight corn feed since it is more readily digestible and absorbed into the system.
This is something that I wish more people would understand. Grains that are used for ethanol production are not grains that are 100% lost for food production.
Yes algae. The last couple of summers I was passing by several detention ponds to get to a new one not filled with algae to let the old dog have her swim. I have no idea how many acres of detention ponds we have in this country, but the potential for algae must be enormous. I have also heard it can be a protein source. I guess one more crop subject to drought.
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
This is something that I wish more people would understand. Grains that are used for ethanol production are not grains that are 100% lost for food production.
Cows should be used to turn non foods (non digestible grass) into food, not inefficiently converting existing food into food - even if there is a fuel process in the middle.
The fatty acid profile of the meat thus produced is actually healthy, versus the rubbish profile when grains are fed.
This is something that I wish more people would understand. Grains that are used for ethanol production are not grains that are 100% lost for food production.
Cows should be used to turn non foods (non digestible grass) into food, not inefficiently converting existing food into food - even if there is a fuel process in the middle.
The fatty acid profile of the meat thus produced is actually healthy, versus the rubbish profile when grains are fed.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Cows should be used to turn non foods (non digestible grass) into food, not inefficiently converting existing food into food - even if there is a fuel process in the middle.
Have you ever eaten field corn? It would be about as non digestible for you as grass. Humans do not eat field corn. All of it that's grown is either used directly as livestock feed, turned into ethanol, or further processed into corn oil, corn syrup, etc.
Cows should be used to turn non foods (non digestible grass) into food, not inefficiently converting existing food into food - even if there is a fuel process in the middle.
Have you ever eaten field corn? It would be about as non digestible for you as grass. Humans do not eat field corn. All of it that's grown is either used directly as livestock feed, turned into ethanol, or further processed into corn oil, corn syrup, etc.
What do they make corn bread out of? Oh and a bunch of other stuff like corn chips and tortias? Is it field corn there is all the fuss about contaimanating the human food with GMS corn?
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OK, let me clarify. You CAN eat field corn (tortillas, chips etc.)just as you CAN eat grass (wheatgrass shakes etc). However, neither if these are very nutritious or healthy if they comprise the majority of your diet.
I shudder when I hear the enviros proposing that the grain supply be used for direct human consumption rather than for livestock feed. I can't help but envision an entire country filled with stunted, malnourished people.
The media is reporting that the death toll from the current flu bug is much higher in Mexico than it is in the U.S. and that the most probable cause is the difference in diet. If your diet consists mainly of cornmeal, what do you expect?
The GM corn contamination scare was caused by one type (Starlink) of field corn.
I shudder when I hear the enviros proposing that the grain supply be used for direct human consumption rather than for livestock feed. I can't help but envision an entire country filled with stunted, malnourished people.
The media is reporting that the death toll from the current flu bug is much higher in Mexico than it is in the U.S. and that the most probable cause is the difference in diet. If your diet consists mainly of cornmeal, what do you expect?
The GM corn contamination scare was caused by one type (Starlink) of field corn.
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Ever read the nutritional labels on a box of corn flakes? True a good balanced diet takes more than corn. One also omits the salt and oil often found in the Fritos bag. Beans are high in the lysine corn is short in. Corn bread and ham and bean soup anybody?
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