Laser pointers banned after attacks

[Tempest]

Quote:
I'm not a nanny-state advocate either, but really, can anyone articulate a real reason for "pointers" like this?

How about crotch rockets and sports cars that can go 150mph? What need is there for them? Do people really need 5k lbs. SUVs? They are killing the planet according to some.
Baseball bats, football, water guns...
Who is to determine "need".

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
I'm not a nanny-state advocate either, but really, can anyone articulate a real reason for "pointers" like this?

How about crotch rockets and sports cars that can go 150mph? What need is there for them? Do people really need 5k lbs. SUVs? They are killing the planet according to some.
Baseball bats, football, water guns...
Who is to determine "need".


Oh, c'mon, that's a classic ad absurdum argument, and is easily distinguishable from the super laser pointers. Crotch rockets, sports cars, and SUVs all offer one degree or another of legitimate utility, though one certainly might argue how much. A laser "pointer" that can instantly blind a spectator at a football game, or the pilot of a landing airliner has absolutely zero legitimate utility. If you really need a pointer, a few tiny milliwatts will do the job -- why would you need enough watts to burn out other peoples' retinas???

Who's to decide need? I know it's not really in vogue at the moment, and this is perilously close to politics, but personally, I'll trust my elected officials if they decide that these laser cannons need to be off limits. I neither want or need one, and the next time I fly, I don't want some stupid punk (or terrorist) blinding the guy I'm counting on to get me home safe.

So, what would YOU do with one of these laser cannons?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
I'm not a nanny-state advocate either, but really, can anyone articulate a real reason for "pointers" like this? I use a puny milliwatt model occasionally for presentations, and even it can dazzle you pretty well. I see no need at all to escalate to a "weapons grade" model.


Astronomers use the high powered lasers a lot when teaching and demonstrating stars to other learner astronomers...beats a generic "up there" when indicating stars.

But there's no genuine reason to be an amateur astronomer either.

That being said, they are talking about issuing licences to those people so that they can continue using them for their hobby.

That being said, Oz is getting silly. Local apprentice in trouble because he was carrying knives on a train. Can wear a leatherman only if your work requires it, and not outside working hours.

 

[MarkC]

That's ridiculous.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
I'll trust my elected officials if they decide

The primary differences in our point of view. What is happening in Oz is a clear example of what happens when the Gov. starts protecting people from themselves.

Quote:
So, what would YOU do with one of these laser cannons?

Don't want or need one (by my own determination). Doesn't mean that other people may want one. A free society and economy is driven by want, not need.

 

[ekpolk]

Temp:

There's no such thing as the society you describe -- never has been and never will be. So, if I find that killing people is amusing and satisfies some "want" that I feel, should that be permitted, just because I want to do it??? Ted Bundy felt that way, of course, and we didn't let him just keep on killing. These super-power laser cannons are, in reality, weapons, pure and simple, and they have no legitimate use that I can see, other than destroying other people or things (notwithstanding Shannow's astronomer suggestion...).

Are you saying that just because a society is a "free" one that "anything goes", and it doesn't matter if "anything" (whatever it is) is tremendously harmful to others???

 

[Gary Allan]

What (I think) you're really objecting to is the harm that these things can do with anonymity and impunity. From that aspect, I surely agree ..but there are lots of things that can be ill used to do harm and there are lots of things that I have that serve no purpose in rational analysis. They may not be harmful in any way that I can figure out.

Do you want to see my license to kill? PA 176427XX

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
What (I think) you're really objecting to is the harm that these things can do with anonymity and impunity. From that aspect, I surely agree ..but there are lots of things that can be ill used to do harm and there are lots of things that I have that serve no purpose in rational analysis. They may not be harmful in any way that I can figure out.

Do you want to see my license to kill? PA 176427XX


What I really object to is the ridiculous ease with which a high-wattage laser can cause carnage and destruction. Just a quick hit on the cockpit windscreen of an airliner on short final might very well be more effective than a small shoulder-fired IR SAM. Does your license to kill apply to optical weapons?

 

[wantin150]

I'm training a guy at work. Some punk lit him up with a little hand held laser. He freaked. That kid had no idea that he got lit up one other time, right before the guy behind the AK shot him 3 times.

 

[Tempest]

I think people that miss use these types of items need to be put in jail and there should be laws on the books to allow that. However, banning something simply because it CAN be dangerous is just dumb and often has the opposite affect of what was intended.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
I think people that miss use these types of items need to be put in jail and there should be laws on the books to allow that. However, banning something simply because it CAN be dangerous is just dumb and often has the opposite affect of what was intended.


I'd vote for BOTH provisions (making them contraband AND sanctioning their misuse). There may be no easy solution, but just allowing anyone to order and get a laser cannon in the name of "freedom to choose" just doesn't hold up. If you're aboard the airliner that's nosediving into the ground because its pilots are blinded, will you still be defending the legality of choosing to own a laser cannon???

 

[MarkC]

Originally Posted By: wantin150
I'm training a guy at work. Some punk lit him up with a little hand held laser. He freaked. That kid had no idea that he got lit up one other time, right before the guy behind the AK shot him 3 times.


Who would be a laser sight on an AK, and why?

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: MarkC
Anything can become a weapon in the hands of someone who wants to use it as one.
Right. Will they have to ban screwdrivers next?


When was the last time a screwdriver came close to blinding an airline pilot while he was trying to land his plane full of innocent passengers???

 

[Aldaris]

Originally Posted By: wantin150
I'm training a guy at work. Some punk lit him up with a little hand held laser. He freaked. That kid had no idea that he got lit up one other time, right before the guy behind the AK shot him 3 times.
very cryptic, you could stand to be more clear

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Who would be a laser sight on an AK, and why?

I had the same thought.

Quote:
When was the last time a screwdriver came close to blinding an airline pilot while he was trying to land his plane full of innocent passengers???

Sharpened screwdrivers are known street weapons. 19 people high jacked several hundred people with box cutters...and why? People have been conditioned to "let the authorities handle it" and they had no way to practically defend themselves due to being in a victim disarmament zone (better known as weapon free zones).

 

[Gary Allan]

I got a good laugh at some movie where the bad guys pulled a gun on some would be hero in the subway in NYC ..and about 25 people on the subway pulled their guns. Every one of the bad guys said, "now let's all be calm here.."

 

[Tempest]

That's the idea Gary, and it's been proven to work time and time again.

 

[Gary Allan]

When they did the docudrama (for all I know it was the real deal - sure looked like it) of ..Geotz (spl? - the subway vigilante) ..I was right there with everything he said. You can legislate anything you want, but if you subject people to undue stress and fear, they're going to cope with it in ways you find unacceptable. The courts can hang their hats on humanistic and social platitudes all that they want. They're merely entertaining themselves in unrealistic self indulgence.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Who would be a laser sight on an AK, and why?

I had the same thought.

Quote:
When was the last time a screwdriver came close to blinding an airline pilot while he was trying to land his plane full of innocent passengers???

Sharpened screwdrivers are known street weapons. 19 people high jacked several hundred people with box cutters...and why? People have been conditioned to "let the authorities handle it" and they had no way to practically defend themselves due to being in a victim disarmament zone (better known as weapon free zones).


We're having a bad case of mixed metaphors here. We're not talking about guns like the sort you can use to defend yourself with. And as a defense lawyer, I'm very well aware of the dizzying array of ways that mundane items, screwdrivers and box cutters can be used as weapons.

But both screwdrivers and box cutters have very legitimate utility. Again, a laser "pointer" that can instantly blind a pilot a mile away has NO utility, other than as a devastating anti-personnel weapon. Actual "pointers" function perfectly on roughly 1/100 the output power of the laser cannons.

Again, somone feel free to articulate ANY legitimate use for a laser "pointer" that can down a plane load of innocent passengers, in a few moments, from a relatively great distance.

Gee, maybe we should make shoulder-fired infrared SAMs available to anyone who "wants" one, just because this is a "free" society. . .

 

[Gary Allan]

Pilots with laser goggles/shades