Comp Cam break in Add.
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Originally Posted By: RWEST
Quote:
I've been telling you guys this "ZDDP", "flat tappet", etc hype is, at least partially, cover for bad metallurgy on the cam manufacturers (plural) part.
I don't follow that line of reasoning. Many of the problems that have been reported are from engines that have been in use for a number of years with no problems, and now we're hearing/seeing problems and the only change is the oil rating.
Can you link me to these problems? The ones I've seen are "fresh" engines, new cams, etc. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's mostly fear.
Quote:
I've been telling you guys this "ZDDP", "flat tappet", etc hype is, at least partially, cover for bad metallurgy on the cam manufacturers (plural) part.
I don't follow that line of reasoning. Many of the problems that have been reported are from engines that have been in use for a number of years with no problems, and now we're hearing/seeing problems and the only change is the oil rating.
Can you link me to these problems? The ones I've seen are "fresh" engines, new cams, etc. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's mostly fear.
I think you found a product to avoid. It has some moly but......
Looks like a SM Redline oil!!!on the retest.
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thats weak the PCMO aditive I sent tallpaul had ZN at about 21,000ppm.
bruce
bruce
Originally Posted By: bruce381
thats weak the PCMO aditive I sent tallpaul had ZN at about 21,000ppm.
bruce
Yeah! Great Stuff! Half an ounce per quart boosts my oil about 350 ppm! I am using it to make HDMO Maxlife Synthetic to run in the motorhome (454 Chevy).
thats weak the PCMO aditive I sent tallpaul had ZN at about 21,000ppm.
bruce
Yeah! Great Stuff! Half an ounce per quart boosts my oil about 350 ppm! I am using it to make HDMO Maxlife Synthetic to run in the motorhome (454 Chevy).
I'm wondering that if the point to these things is to provide extra protection for short times for break in, would the use of high quality chlorinated adds be useful for say the 1000 miles or so that it takes for the break in to happen? These would add far more protection than ZDDP adds would.
Then change the oil and go on with good oils from there.
Then change the oil and go on with good oils from there.
Interesting that camshaft breakin requires high levels of zddp, yet IIRC cylinder breakin is better done with an oil that has low levels of zddp, almost like a SA or SB rated oil. Or am I mixed up?
""would the use of high quality chlorinated adds be useful for say the 1000 miles or so that it takes for the break in to happen""
I would about garrantee the compared equal % wt the Chlor will beat the ZDDP on anti scuff and load carrying ability big time.
But as discussed before metal corrosion/stain/seal problems/sludge etc with a chlor parrifiin may negate any improvement.
Bur I have always thought that if you used a CP at say 1-2% or
about 6,000ppm to 12,000ppm that it would be a great wear reducer provided you dumped the oil at a short interval to avoid any of the known problems, with the chlor still "attached" to the metal the wear reducetion improvement "effect" may last a a while.
I do not know what effect additives/film formers have on "break in" they may stop the process.
bruce
I would about garrantee the compared equal % wt the Chlor will beat the ZDDP on anti scuff and load carrying ability big time.
But as discussed before metal corrosion/stain/seal problems/sludge etc with a chlor parrifiin may negate any improvement.
Bur I have always thought that if you used a CP at say 1-2% or
about 6,000ppm to 12,000ppm that it would be a great wear reducer provided you dumped the oil at a short interval to avoid any of the known problems, with the chlor still "attached" to the metal the wear reducetion improvement "effect" may last a a while.
I do not know what effect additives/film formers have on "break in" they may stop the process.
bruce
Originally Posted By: Taylor
Well I emailed comp cams, they were very unhelpful. He said the numbers didn't sound right, and asked me to send in some of the lube. I said I would if they would reimburse me for the shipping and lube. He responded saying he would use what was in-house, but wouldn't send me an analysis. Anyways Blackstone was happy to re-run it,
Your wasting your time with Blackstone. The only way to get to the bottom of this is to send a sample to another lab, (and shake it up first, the bottle that is).
For the record, I think Blackstone's numbers are way off, (wouldn't be the first time either).
Well I emailed comp cams, they were very unhelpful. He said the numbers didn't sound right, and asked me to send in some of the lube. I said I would if they would reimburse me for the shipping and lube. He responded saying he would use what was in-house, but wouldn't send me an analysis. Anyways Blackstone was happy to re-run it,
Your wasting your time with Blackstone. The only way to get to the bottom of this is to send a sample to another lab, (and shake it up first, the bottle that is).
For the record, I think Blackstone's numbers are way off, (wouldn't be the first time either).
just go with redlines new breakin oil additive(synthetic formulas) which has around 9000ppm zinc and around 7000ppm phos....also torco's new zep additive(dino formulation) has all and plus has moly....
Has anyone tried zddplus? It looks solid to me, but I know next to nothing. There is a VOA on here under zddp stuff on ebay, its close to what they claim. 71800 ppm Zn, 51500 ppm Ph. 20 TBN. http://www.zddplus.com
Originally Posted By: Taylor
2nd bottle was shaken, 1st wasnt. Why does everybody hate Blackstone??????
I don't recall anyone claiming to hate Blackstone.
However, they seem to be notorious for VOAs that don't even come close to what other labs have reported on identical products.
2nd bottle was shaken, 1st wasnt. Why does everybody hate Blackstone??????
I don't recall anyone claiming to hate Blackstone.
However, they seem to be notorious for VOAs that don't even come close to what other labs have reported on identical products.
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Hence the use of roller camshafts in most "modern" engines that don't require break-in.
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