Toyota vs VW reliability

[artificialist]

Bah, I don't believe it when someone says that a Japan-built Honda is better than a US-built one.

My dad had an Ohio-built 1995 Honda Accord, and nothing went wrong with it for 110,000 miles.

My mom had a Japan-built 1999 Honda CRV, and the A/C quit working 3 times withing the 40,000 miles she had it.

Any time someone claims that Japan-built always means better, I ask "Dragonball Z was animated in Japan. Why is it such a lame television show?" I also compared other stuff that was Japan made.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb

But not one mention of Toyota V6s sludging up


That's because it's the owner's fault for not performing proper maintenance.


My sarcasm metere isn't very accurate, so I'll just ask. That is sarcasm, right?

 

[leftlane]

Ive had my 01 odyssey tranny replaced under warranty also. Go to a odyssey forum and you will see huge tranny threads from all of the owners who have had to do so. I believe the odyssey is the only honda with this problem if I remember right and supposedly the newer odysseys have trannys that are built better to where they dont have that problem last time I read about it in the odyssey forums but honda took way too long to finally get around to resolving that problem after 5+ years. I believe I read that the toyota sludge issues have been resolved in the newer models as well but in the toyota forums that Ive been in Ive seen that the owners who keep the oil topped off and change it on time say that they have not had sludge issues.

 

[benjamming]

LL:

The Odyssey is far from the only Honda that has had tranny problems. Acura 5-speeds have gone kablamo, Accord 4-speed from '98-02, & some 7th generation Accords prior to the update in '05.

 

[kd5byb]

I'll add one thing, not data-related, but worthy of discussion:

PERCEPTION is REALITY. If you perceive your Brand "X" car to be more reliable than Brand "Y", you'll always feel that that is reality, regardless of fact.

As an example, I know a guy with a car that has some problem about every three months. Yet, he perceives none of these problems to be the car's fault, so to him, it's a very reliable vehicle!

I've seen this same symptom in BWM, Porsche, and Mercedes owners I've known. They have a myriad of problems that seem to recurr frequently, yet to the owners, they are fine, reliable cars. Pure data would show otherwise, but you'll never convince the owners that they are anything but.

Bottom line - people are EMOTIONALLY attached to their vehicles. Think about it - if I didn't think my vehicle choice was the best vehicle for my application, wouldn't I be stupid to buy it?

So the Toyota people are going to like Toyota's, the VW people like VW's. Heck, my wife had a friend that LOVED A YUGO!!! You like what you've bought.

later,
b

 

[01rangerxl]

My brother in law has a 2000 Jetta that he bought new. It has over 100,000 miles, but I don't know how many it has now. The A/C broke, and I think it has had other annoyance issues, but I don't think the car has ever broken down before or had a major mechanical problem. It has been taken on many extended trips without any issues. He is happy with the car, and while a Corolla MAY have had fewer issues, he is probably happier with the Jetta overall than he would have been with a Corolla. He has owned the car for 8 years, so it can't be that bad.

On the other hand, my roommate's girlfriend had a newer Jetta that had constant problems. Every month something would break on the car. It never broke down, but the repairs were enough that she dumped the car for a Mini Cooper.

It really comes down to the individual buyer. A Toyota is not better than a VW in every case and a VW is not better than a Toyota in every case. It comes down to what the buyer's priorities are.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
My sarcasm metere isn't very accurate, so I'll just ask. That is sarcasm, right?


You must understand. It is a Toyota. Maintenance practices that are adequate for lesser vehicles are not sufficient for Toyota. Toyota delivers refinement, reliability, and quality, and if you wish to reap these benefits you must treat your Toyota well. Remember, you get what you give.
/sarcasm

 

[RippyMan]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: badtlc
My sarcasm metere isn't very accurate, so I'll just ask. That is sarcasm, right?


You must understand. It is a Toyota. Maintenance practices that are adequate for lesser vehicles are not sufficient for Toyota. Toyota delivers refinement, reliability, and quality, and if you wish to reap these benefits you must treat your Toyota well. Remember, you get what you give.
/sarcasm



Well, you would have to admit that the sludge problem is one of the few recurring auto maladies that can be prevented with maintenance. Unlike say, the Honda tranny problem or VW's electrical gremlins, which almost inevitably occur on some models and years. That still doesn't justify Toyota's ---- design though. I think that any engine that'll seize up after 10,000 miles on dino (without burning any) is junk, unless it's some really special machine. Certainly not on a boring econo sedan like a Camry.

As for VW, I can definitely see how someone could have an excellent experience with them. However, I'm not sure I'd want one. Of all of the non-luxury brands, it's VWs I see on the back of flatbeds the most, new ones (I know this is a very poor sample, but still). I once saw a beautiful, spanking-new Passat wagon being winched up onto one at the mall. The very well-dressed, good-looking female owner did not look pleased. Today on the way home I did see a newer Acura being brought into the dealer on the back of a flatbed. If I ever got a VW I think I would keep the trusty old Corolla (which I still enjoy driving immensely) around as a spare just in case I couldn't get the German machine to start. Then again, this could all be a false perception. I take absolutely no stock in CR.

 

[Max_Wander]

My friend has an 05 Corolla thats rusting from under the rear door handle, he was pretty [censored] about it when he found it. Our 97 Camry will randomly rev to 2200rpm after a hot start (causes the car to really PULL when youre trying to stop in gear) and 3 of the 4 strut mounts came LOOSE. I've heard other camrys that made the clunking noise of loose shock mounts too while strolling down the road one day. That said, the Camry's pushing about 320,000 KMs, 75% highway and other than rust, the shocks and the random rev ups, it runs just fine. We've also had bad experience with Hondas. A 91 Civic used to stall after pulling out of the driveway and wouldnt start again, TBI was changed. The front left wheel broke right off the frame during a right turn. My friend's accord had a wheel fall off while he was pulling into a driveway to turn around. Not loose lug nuts, I'm talking the whole hub and strut!! No automaker is perfect, but it is true that "rep" plays a big part in perception of quality.

 

[MillerMan]

"As for VW, I can definitely see how someone could have an excellent experience with them. However, I'm not sure I'd want one. Of all of the non-luxury brands, it's VWs I see on the back of flatbeds the most, new ones (I know this is a very poor sample, but still). I once saw a beautiful, spanking-new Passat wagon being winched up onto one at the mall."

yep, one day last fall on my way to work there were 4 VW's broke down on the highway, that's 4 in less than 20 miles, they were all 3 years old or newer, actually maybe less than 2 years old, unsure

I see way more vw's broke down, getting winched onto flat beds than any other brand, which is pretty bad since how much market share do they have? I have seen plenty of benz's broke down too considering there market share.

edit: actually I see more VW's broke down than all of General Motors brands combined, I am talking cars 2 or 3 years old or less. to me that's a sign of poor quality and poor engineering

no VW's for me

 

[retsaky]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Others need something to get them to work; I am that type of person and I will put my $$ on a Toyota.


Toyota: Because sometimes you have to drive, but don't really want to.


Driving a Toyota is like driving a "refrigerator." It may run, but it's cold and sterile!

 

[Saturn_Fan]

The relentless Toyota bashing continues....

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

I don't understand why people can't understand that different people have different needs and likes and dislikes. If someone likes his VW then nobody should tell him it's a p-o-s. If somebody likes his Toyota then nobody should tell him that he owns something boring. Why impose your own views on someone else just because they aren't driving something that you would? Afterall, aren't all cars in some way an appliance?

BTW I love my mom's refrigerator of a Camry. Not one "real" problem since new. The ride and seats make long trips good.

 

[TooManyWheels]

As long as you realize that you are talking about the emotional realm that is fine. But if you come out and try to substitute your emotional attachment for statistics you shouldn't be surprised if people don't automatically adopt your viewpoint.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
As long as you realize that you are talking about the emotional realm that is fine. But if you come out and try to substitute your emotional attachment for statistics you shouldn't be surprised if people don't automatically adopt your viewpoint.


Yes. I'm not opposed to showing people statistics, but to shove it down someone's throat is unnecessary. Also, unless someone has first hand experiences they shouldn't condemn a car without ever owning it.

If anybody I know ever asks me for a recommendation for a car, I may give him my opinion but I would not tell him that if he bought brand x that it will leave him stranded on the side of the road. There are several members in this thread that go beyond giving an opinion and are pretty much closed minded and getting emotional. Different companies target different niches and Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc know their target well or else they wouldn't have so many cars on the road. VW caters to a different group of people so it's like comparing apples and oranges. That's just me opining so don't flame me.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
The crucial variable here is what is the critical threshold number of responses needed to get significance. If it is 5, then it means a helluva a lot because we would be playing Russian roulette by buying a VW rather than a Toyota. On the other hand, if it is 10,000, then you can basically ignore the difference in the same way you ignore the probability of dying everytime you drive.


The pure engineering types will probably want to weigh in on this, but my statistics classes taught that this number was as low as ten, and as high as 30, maybe 35. Past that point, relatively little was added in accuracy. So if a person knows ten owners of the vehicle in question, the evident pattern is already representative of the larger population. By the time you have known thirty owners, it is almost exactly representative of the whole.

 

[crinkles]

I'll put it to you this way. If I bought with my heart, I'd buy a VW. If I bought with my head, it would be a Toyota. If I bought with my wallet, I'd buy a Hyundai.

any one of those 3 of course do not decide the outcome, but average joes like me with an ounce of fiscal responsibility give more weight to my head and wallet than i do to my heart.

And I believe a toyota makes sense. Not cheap, but not breaking the bank. Pretty dull, but it sure makes life easier.




Now, as for a clear difference between quality and VW and Toyota nowadays, my gut feel (note that i cannot produce any data, just like any other joe schmoe pretty much) is that there is a statistically significant difference. In Australia at least, remember we're talking about different markets here. Some Toyota's here get made in australia, some in japan, some in thailand.

I worked on a mine once with about 100 cars (pick ups, etc). this was in the middle of nowhere (actually near wolf creek - the movie). 98 of the cars were toyota. the ones that weren't, were subcontractors to the mine. now it think there would be a reason for that.

I didn't see 98% volkswagens standing on the minesite.

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
The crucial variable here is what is the critical threshold number of responses needed to get significance. If it is 5, then it means a helluva a lot because we would be playing Russian roulette by buying a VW rather than a Toyota. On the other hand, if it is 10,000, then you can basically ignore the difference in the same way you ignore the probability of dying everytime you drive.


The pure engineering types will probably want to weigh in on this, but my statistics classes taught that this number was as low as ten, and as high as 30, maybe 35. Past that point, relatively little was added in accuracy. So if a person knows ten owners of the vehicle in question, the evident pattern is already representative of the larger population. By the time you have known thirty owners, it is almost exactly representative of the whole.



i remember something similar, but, I'm not sure if the actual number depends on what you are testing. also, the rate at which the "minimum" statistically meaningfull sample size grows when you add 1, 2, 3, variables, is faster than exponential growth.

say you look at engines. yes, you may need only 30 experiences to make a judgement.

add in the transmission, alternator, all the suspension gear, steering, tyres, bodywork, feul system, ecu, air intake, etc etc and you end up with needing a much much larger sample to get an objective trend. because failures (and therefore complaints) in cars can come from any of these or a combination thereof.

 

[crinkles]

.....

 

[BarkerMan]

If you want a practical example of reliability you need look no farther than to watch what the illegals in Southern California drive. They don't have to pass smog or get them registered and the Police don't give them tickets. They drive them until they break and only fix things that make the car go. The cars have to be easy to work on and they must be able to survive on little or no periodic maintenance. You won't see many Hyundai's, a lot of Honda's and Toyota's and some domestics. The really old ones with the mismatched doors and missing fenders are the Honda's and Toyota's. There are some VW's because they are big in TJ and other parts of Mexico. You just won't see too many old ones. Among the vans the hands down winner is the Chevy Astro van, big enough to carry 10 to 20 passengers, a big enough engine to run on two or three dropped cylinders and easy to work on with plenty of spare parts available. These people are good at recycling tires, too. A tire in their hands has two life times. The first owner gets to wear off the tread and the second owner gets to wear it down to the belts. They have a tire monitoring system. When the tire goes bang and starts flapping it's time to get a new used tire. They don't litter either. They leave the fragments of the tire right where they fall off. Ask any illegal what he looks for when he steals his next car, good tires, a full gas tank and a Toyota or a Honda unless he wants to take the family then it's the Astro Van because he need room for at least a dozen passengers.