E-85 hurts more than it helps

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I think E-85 vehicles hurt more than help the U.S. They not only get worse gas mileage than a gas vehicle, but it is hurting food production and food prices by taking corn out of the food stream. ( Corn is in a unbelievable amount of products )

What is your opinion? Helps or Hurts?
 
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Hurts!!

whats the point of making it? it cost a little less at the
pump but you get less MPG outa it,,so it all balances out in
the end anyway..

poor farmers that have to buy the stuff for feed for cattle
are sure taking a hit, over $5 a bush here by me..
 
we use NG to make fuel for our cars (via production of fertilizers, etc.) or we use NG to heat our homes. which is a smarter use of a depleting commodity?

Considering the photon efficiency of corn, it is not particularly good use, regardless. Algae ponds to biodiesel and some other methods are far superior, but then we get into the political arena of ADM's hands in the pockets of this person and that. We're not going there...

JMH
 
IIRC, ethanol replaced MTBE as a fuel additive. now what? problem- solution. dang gummit, the solution IS a problem!
 
I am using it as an octane booster in my older car and truck. Local 87 octane can really cause some preignition at times, but with a few gallons of E-85 it totally goes away without affecting fuel economy or driveability so far.
 
Hurts.

I agree with JHZR2, the way to go is algae - biodiesel, it's very efficient and very do-able.
 
Coskata is a company that looks interesting. They will have a plant up in 2011 that can produce 50-100 million gallons of ethanol per day from anything organic - including municipal waste. GM has invested in the company.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/04/coskata-chooses.html#more

"Coskata has been eager to reach this milestone, because it will be a significant demonstration before building our first commercial plant that we can produce ethanol from non-food based sources for less than $1 a gallon. This facility is being built with some of the leading gasification technology, supplied by Alter NRG, and in one of the most progressive states for next generation ethanol.
—Bill Roe, president and CEO of Coskata"
 
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I agree that ethanol from waste is good...but look at what it's done to our grain reserves.

I'm sure that we CAN run out of garbage (particularly that which was derived from oil in the first place).
 
solar powered electricity --> H2 --> oil refinery

This is probably the best use of the land, if you want to save petroleum by farming and there aren't yet enough electric cars on the road. And you can do it in the desert regions where crops don't even grow.

Waste should be prevented as much as possible, so there should not be any left to turn to ethanol. But where there is waste, it is a good idea to do something useful with it. I would think making diesel fuel would be better than ethanol since it gets used more efficiently, but maybe the process only makes alcohols.
 
Originally Posted By: daman
Hurts!!

whats the point of making it? it cost a little less at the
pump but you get less MPG outa it,,so it all balances out in
the end anyway..

poor farmers that have to buy the stuff for feed for cattle
are sure taking a hit, over $5 a bush here by me..



I wonder what % of the price of meat comes from energy + feed cost...

Double energy and feed costs, and maybe the price of meat will double.
 
Unless you do what cattle were designed to do...turn inedible grass into meat/milk.

It's healthier too to eat grass fed meat.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that ethanol also leads to increased smog, especially in urban areas.
 
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Originally Posted By: badtlc
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that ethanol also leads to increased smog, especially in urban areas.


Humm...how so?
21.gif


Just asking.
 
Being that E85 is only about 1% of the ethanol used at the pumps, it's not the problem. The E10 that most of the major cities are mandated to use is where the ethanol is going.
 
Originally Posted By: KW
Originally Posted By: badtlc
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that ethanol also leads to increased smog, especially in urban areas.


Humm...how so?
21.gif


Just asking.


Just google up ethanol and smog. Ethanol apparently is great during the winter and less of a pollutant than gas, but during the summer time it can produce more NOx than regular gas leading to increased smog and ozone problems. It is nothing greatly worse than regular gas, but the possibility is still there and it could lead to more pollution related deaths.
 
Originally Posted By: mpersell
Being that E85 is only about 1% of the ethanol used at the pumps, it's not the problem. The E10 that most of the major cities are mandated to use is where the ethanol is going.
Ya beat me to it!
 
Our climate in the United States, and the present technology to make ethanol, combine together to give it the
'thumbs down', for the moment.
 
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