Nokian Alternative

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Can't get Nokians in the size needed for a Lexus RX 330 other than pure snows (Haqapelitas). Looking for an All season with good snow capabilities. It will be based in Minnesota with some Midwest highway exposure. P225/65/17.
Any suggestions good as well as bad?
 
They make the WR's in that size also. My friend has a similar size on his Toyota truck. He has been running them year round for two years now. They are still at 6mm.
 
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
They make the WR's in that size also.

If they do, it's not listed on Nokian's website. They do list 235/65/17 though, if he'd be willing to accept a slight departure from the OEM size.
 
Check out the Goodyear Fortera TripleTred.

It's available in your size AND has the Severe Snow Service Snowflake on the sidewall!

I may just put these on my wife's Highlander.
 
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Let me know how they work out, my daughter just got a Rav4 with the same size tire as my buddy in Minneapolis. I'll be looking to replace in about 17 months. The Minnesota issue is going on as we speak. Snow and it's almost May. He'll have those new tires on by Labor Day. I'll check the GY's. Thanks.
 
Frankly I really see no point in all season Nokian WR. Most part of the year they won't see any snow and will simply get worn out. By the next winter you will have less tread which is most important in winter tires, and so on. If you have place to stock tires why such expensive compromise that makes very little sense? In reality these tires are not GREAT at anything really, unlike dedicated season tires.
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Frankly I really see no point in all season Nokian WR. Most part of the year they won't see any snow and will simply get worn out. By the next winter you will have less tread which is most important in winter tires, and so on. If you have place to stock tires why such expensive compromise that makes very little sense? In reality these tires are not GREAT at anything really, unlike dedicated season tires.


I don't follow your logic.
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My dad has the WR's on his CRV... they don't seem to wear any faster in warmer weather than other tires he's had.
 
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Frankly I really see no point in all season Nokian WR. Most part of the year they won't see any snow and will simply get worn out. By the next winter you will have less tread which is most important in winter tires, and so on. If you have place to stock tires why such expensive compromise that makes very little sense? In reality these tires are not GREAT at anything really, unlike dedicated season tires.


I don't follow your logic.
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Well I'm sorry but I can't put it anymore clearer. High Quality All Season tires like Nokian WR or Good Year Triple Treads are expensive compromise which don't make a lot of sense in terms of performance if you think about it. Especially in well defined climates like Midwest. Seasonal tires eliminate a lot of compromises and providing you with exact properties at the right time when you need them. With All Season WR it's like wearing heavy boots all year round.
 
Have you actually owned the WR and driven it during summer? Trust me, they do not feel like "heavy boots". They handle summer just fine as long as you're not a spirited driver (which majority of us aren't). Yet, they deliver very good winter performance, comparable to an average winter tire. But you still benefit from not having to go through the hassle of having to own/store two sets of rims/tires and having to swap them out twice a year.
 
Right, that's because their compaund is compromised. Thus you will have less traction during the cold temperatures. Also they have more open area than regular A/S tires which diminishes traction period. You can't fight logic on this one. Compromise is always a compromise, and in this case compromise is way too big because they try to please everyone, which is IMPOSIBLE. You have one factor fighting against the other in one tire. Even for "non spirited" drivers it's a bad, expensive compromise. I'd rather go through hassle twice a year than wear the boots all year round on my car.
I already mentoned all the points against expensive "GOOD" All season tires in my very first post, so I'm not repeating myself.

P.S. I didn't drive them but I think I have a pretty clear idea how all season tires with severe winter capabilities will handle in summer (bad). I don't think I really have to try them to have an idea:))) And "fine" could be defined quite differentley by different people. Thanks, but No Thanks!! I will have my winter tires in winter and summer tires in summer.
 
The Nokian WR would be a great year-round tire for my mother or girlfriend if they didn't have me around. They don't drive hard enough to wear tire tread down before the rubber gets old, nor would they ever notice the performance compromise in the summer or the winter. But, like me, they run studded tires in the winter because I've got their seasonal change-overs covered.

For most, I think it would eventually make sense to have two sets anyway since the worn set could become summer tires while preserving a newer set for the winter. But I'd be willing to run WRs year-round in that manner if studded tires weren't an option for me. Sure, there's always a little compromise, but that's true with every tire and every vehicle. It just depends what you're willing to compromise. I probably wouldn't buy a pure summer tire for summer here because of those times when we get an unexpected snowfall in May or September, or those times when I'm driving on dirt/gravel/mud.
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
P.S. I didn't drive them but I think I have a pretty clear idea how all season tires with severe winter capabilities will handle in summer (bad). I don't think I really have to try them to have an idea:)))

Ignorance is bliss. You "think", but you have no experience.

Besides, the fact that you'd rather swap your tires twice a year doesn't mean everyone else would, too. Majority of people view it as a major inconvenience and don't mind the compromise. I too used to swap tires/rims. But as I get older (and lazier), I can see myself sticking with one set of tires all year round. Of course it all depends on your driving patterns - if you drive a lot in places where the snow doesn't get plowed, it's a different story. Then again, the WRs that I drove on handled snow better than my dedicated winter Michelin Pilot Alpins. And during summer the WRs were sufficient for 95% of driving situations, too. The other 5% can easily be avoided by not driving like a madman.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
P.S. I didn't drive them but I think I have a pretty clear idea how all season tires with severe winter capabilities will handle in summer (bad). I don't think I really have to try them to have an idea:)))

Ignorance is bliss. You "think", but you have no experience.

Besides, the fact that you'd rather swap your tires twice a year doesn't mean everyone else would, too. Majority of people view it as a major inconvenience and don't mind the compromise. I too used to swap tires/rims. But as I get older (and lazier), I can see myself sticking with one set of tires all year round. Of course it all depends on your driving patterns - if you drive a lot in places where the snow doesn't get plowed, it's a different story. Then again, the WRs that I drove on handled snow better than my dedicated winter Michelin Pilot Alpins. And during summer the WRs were sufficient for 95% of driving situations, too. The other 5% can easily be avoided by not driving like a madman.


"Majority of people" are lazy ignorant retards who listen to Britney Spears music and wouldn't know what a good tire is if it fell and hit them over the head. They would rather waste their time sitting on the couch watching American Idol or some sport game instead of spending 2 hours a year to greatly improve their safety. Am'I supose to follow this people? No way. Swapping tires is not a "major inconvenience" and takes 2 whooping hours a year!

Your "Ignorance is bliss" comment was spot on because you have no clue what a good winter tire is, thus WR seem sufficient to you. Everyone know Michelin Pilot Alpins are garbage. Well I have much higer standarts and can only look at the WR tread pattern to know they are not good. It's simple logic and you don't need to be a genious to figure out that these tires are only mediocre in comparison with real seasonal tires, pattern and compaund wise. Still not convinced? Read the review at Canadian Driver website. And guess what Finnish Nokian website don't even list WR's in their winter tire section, neither is those new WR-G 2 or whatever model. It's all Hakkas there. I guess Finns are not that easily brainwashed into all-weather claims.

Your statements about madman driving are laughable. You don't need to drive like a madman to encounter extreme situation where you need all the traction you can get. And guess what, you ain't got it. But hey, it's your money if you want to waste them on jack of all trades, master of none tires just because you too lazy to spend 2 hours a year swapping them, then go ahead. But it's YOUR ignorance that makes you think these tires are sufficient for all year round use, because they are simply not due to their high compromise design. It's logic and common sense which you can't argue with your personal, very limited experience.
 
Originally Posted By: rpn453
...nor would they ever notice the performance compromise in the summer or the winter.


They would when they encounter emergency situation. Which is exactly why you need good traction. Even if you don't utilize it to it's full potential, it's good to know it's there when you need it.

You doing a good thing for your loved ones. I'm doing the same and I think it's a great thing to do. It's funny how people are not lazy to change their oil, but won't take their time to change tires, which are way more important than any oil will ever be.

For those who thinks it's all a nonsense and still pretty sure that their all season tires, superior driving skills and experience are well sufficient, I have this to say: We had two major snow storms (among bunch of small ones) this wnter in WI and both times we had 200 car accidents per storm. I bet those people thought their great mighty all-season tires, experience and driving skills were well sufficient too. I encountered many winter storms as well as dry summer situations behind the wheel and know how precious a good traction can be when you need it. It's not about sufficiency, it's all about extra traction where you REALLY need it, even if you drive like a turtle. We all naturally very confident, until we end up in the ditch.
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
[Your "Ignorance is bliss" comment was spot on because you have no clue what a good winter tire is, thus WR seem sufficient to you. Everyone know Michelin Pilot Alpins are garbage.

Once again, it all depends where you drive. For typical city driving where streets are plowed rather quickly, you don't need anything more aggressive than a WR.

And I do have experience with other winter tires - Nokian W and Dunlop M2, to name a couple. IMO, the WR offers similar levels of winter performance. Is it the best? No. But is it good? Yes. Not everyone must have the best. If that was the case, we'd all be driving tanks during winter.
 
Guys - my buddy was relocated to Minnesota from Georgia and has no clue about cars or tires. He wouldn't buy a second set of tires/wheels, like I did, if he had to.
I'm trying to put an A/S radial on his Lexus 350 that will keep him out of the ditch. He drives "responsibly", and will put on what I tell him. I'm looking to get the best "compromise" (as you correctly alluded to) that I can. I don't have much experience with SUVs, so I'm looking for input.
You and I know very well the best approach here, but getting someone to buy seasonal tires/wheels, r&b tires every 7500, retorque wheel lugs after 50 miles, let alone torque the wheels with a torque wrench to begin with, doesn't always happen. I'm glad he changes the oil!!
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Once again, it all depends where you drive. For typical city driving where streets are plowed rather quickly, you don't need anything more aggressive than a WR.


This is way too big of the blanket statement. And I disagree with it. If you live somewhere where there is not much snow maybe they would be ok. If you live in snowy state like I do they would not be good enough even in metro areas. We just had a killer winter and snow plows just couldn't keep up! Then again they are still all season tires which priorities has been shifted towards winter performance, but guess what it took away that much from their dry performance.

For example I don't need to eat junk food to know it's junk food. I don't need to get all season WR's to know they are not going to be as good as my seasonal tires. I don't settle for compromises because it's worth to have the best when it comes to traction. But again if you like them it's none of my business to tell you otherwise. I just stating my thoughts for the sake of argument.
 
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
I'm glad he changes the oil!!


If he is handy enough to change his own oil, I see no reason why he can't change his own tires twice a year as well. I started changing tires way before I started changing oil. It's much easier actually. All you need is another set of wheels, torque wrench, extension, socket, some lug nuts (Tire Rack includes them), space to store it and a jack. Wheel locks are optional. All in all should cost around $200. You save a lot more in the long run.

With expensive all seasons you just overpaying for bigger compromise. And they get worn out faster because you have them on all year around. If you have a garage, these high price, high profile all season tires don't make sense from neither economical, practical nor performance standpoint. You way better of with two sets of season tires.
 
I got a set of Nokian WR SUV tires for my 2 wheel drive Silverado and they are great tires. I didn't like anything Cooper had to offer. I don't like Deathstones(Firestone) Goodyear Wranglers are terrible tires. They were just a little more expensive than the Cooper Discoverer H/T which are not that great in the snow. Nokians are great in the snow.
 
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