In BMW 5spd currently Redline MTL is there better?

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rlme36

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Hi,

I have a 95 BMW M3 that I track quite often. The trans currently has Redline MTL, but feels a little notchy. The fluid was changed spring last year and has only 10 track days on it. Is there a better alternative by Amsoil? I know Pablo recommended something to me, but can't seem to find the post.

rob
 
Ive found the lighter Amsoil product to work quite well in the box in my E30.

JMH
 
MTL was a bit notchy for me.
I tried the commonly recommended mix of 1/2 MTL and 1/2 MT90, and it is MUCH better.
I was using up what was on the shelf, and Redline is a fine trans lube, but I will buy the Amsoil gear lube when I need to change.
 
At 35k miles, I switched the OEM fluid to RP Synchromax in my 5spd. I used to have occasional problems with putting the car in 1st gear. With Synchromax, this issue is now gone. No complaints overall, just smooth shifting.
 
Originally Posted By: rlme36
Hi,

I have a 95 BMW M3 that I track quite often. The trans currently has Redline MTL, but feels a little notchy. The fluid was changed spring last year and has only 10 track days on it. Is there a better alternative by Amsoil? I know Pablo recommended something to me, but can't seem to find the post.

rob


Amsoil MTF
 
I have MTF in my 1998 528i (ZF 5 speed) right now. I had a fill of MTL only last one year (15,000km) and become notchy. After changing it with MTL it was still notchy. I tried D4ATF and it was sort of smoother in some conditions, but still a little off. Amsoil MTF is perhaps a little better yet.

I think my notichiness is actually wear in the shifter mechanism which I'll be addressing when warm weather comes my way. The same could be true for you and fluid won't help. I will hold further judgement on MTF until I make sure that the linkage isn't the issue. I'm "mildly" concerned that Amsoil "corporate" does not recommend MTF for this transmission, but others (including Pablo) highly recommend it. I believe that MTF's viscosity specs are right in line and the like - hopefully there is no chemical incompatibility to be concerned with. Redline products far outweigh Amsoil in BMW gearbox popularity so there isn't a large community running MTF to query.

MTL did work well in my climate. When I first switched to MTL from D4ATF during the summer it shifted better than the thinner fluid. In cold weather, it's possible that MTL will be harder to shift than D4ATF until warm. MTL was also the first fluid to free my 5-th gear shifter gate stickiness in extreme cold (a documented problem with some ZF 5-speeds).

I also used Synchromax and wasn't particularly impressed. It didn't improve shifting at all over D4ATF and was VERY thin, particularly when drained. I usually run gear and diff fluids 2 years and 25,000km (15,000mi) which is fairly short. IMO it's a little over-hyped by forums.

I've used: MTF-LT-1 (factory) -> D4ATF -> RP Synchromax -> D4ATF -> MTL -> Amsoil MTF
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: rlme36
Hi,

I have a 95 BMW M3 that I track quite often. The trans currently has Redline MTL, but feels a little notchy. The fluid was changed spring last year and has only 10 track days on it. Is there a better alternative by Amsoil? I know Pablo recommended something to me, but can't seem to find the post.

rob




Amsoil MTF


Thanks, just ordered it. I put your number in, hopefully that does something. I went with 4 qts always nice to have some around.
 
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
I have MTF in my 1998 528i (ZF 5 speed) right now. I had a fill of MTL only last one year (15,000km) and become notchy. After changing it with MTL it was still notchy. I tried D4ATF and it was sort of smoother in some conditions, but still a little off. Amsoil MTF is perhaps a little better yet.

I think my notichiness is actually wear in the shifter mechanism which I'll be addressing when warm weather comes my way. The same could be true for you and fluid won't help. I will hold further judgement on MTF until I make sure that the linkage isn't the issue. I'm "mildly" concerned that Amsoil "corporate" does not recommend MTF for this transmission, but others (including Pablo) highly recommend it. I believe that MTF's viscosity specs are right in line and the like - hopefully there is no chemical incompatibility to be concerned with. Redline products far outweigh Amsoil in BMW gearbox popularity so there isn't a large community running MTF to query.

MTL did work well in my climate. When I first switched to MTL from D4ATF during the summer it shifted better than the thinner fluid. In cold weather, it's possible that MTL will be harder to shift than D4ATF until warm. MTL was also the first fluid to free my 5-th gear shifter gate stickiness in extreme cold (a documented problem with some ZF 5-speeds).

I also used Synchromax and wasn't particularly impressed. It didn't improve shifting at all over D4ATF and was VERY thin, particularly when drained. I usually run gear and diff fluids 2 years and 25,000km (15,000mi) which is fairly short. IMO it's a little over-hyped by forums.

I've used: MTF-LT-1 (factory) -> D4ATF -> RP Synchromax -> D4ATF -> MTL -> Amsoil MTF




Yes, there is quite the following in the E36 community for Redline. I wish there were more users of the Amsoil MTF, but someone has to go first so I'll give it a go. It should handle my application better than the MTL does. I get a little seepage of MTL at the track, comes out of the vent hole. My guess is that I am getting it pretty hot and sloshing it around a lot.
 
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
According to this and this MTL is thicker than MTF at 100C. If thin viscosity at temp is your problem I don't think MTF will improve things.


A couple things spring to mind. The recommended vis is Dex III vis range (around 7 cSt), and we don't want to get too far from that (especially in NE), plus some of the notchiness experienced by others may not be viscosity related - I mean to a point it may be, but also may be FM related.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
According to this and this MTL is thicker than MTF at 100C. If thin viscosity at temp is your problem I don't think MTF will improve things.


A couple things spring to mind. The recommended vis is Dex III vis range (around 7 cSt), and we don't want to get too far from that (especially in NE), plus some of the notchiness experienced by others may not be viscosity related - I mean to a point it may be, but also may be FM related.


Pablo: There are a bunch of E39 folks running MT90 in the Getrag 6 speed that won't shut up about it and think that everyone should run it. Of course they might live in Texas and perhaps don't actually understand what cold is
LOL.gif
MT-90 is quite a bit thicker than 7 and still seems to work for many people. Most E39er's that dare to change from MTF-LT-2 go with an ATF-consistency fluid. It seems to me that MTF-LT-1 was around 7 cst and MTF-LT-2 was around 9. That puts MTL and MTF pretty much right on the money. It's also been discussed that the move to 7 cst was to provide easy shifting in the "luxury car" market but potentially sacrificing longevity.

Of course some folks have 400k+ on their E39s and I don't think I've read about a lubrication-viscosity-related manual transmission failure. I believe I've read about some failures of the detents on Getrags (failure of plastic or composite parts?) and nothing but the sticky 5th gear gate on the ZF 5 speeds.

The E39 automatics are a different story.
 
Last edited:
I've used Amsoil MTF in a couple different trannies that spec'd atf fluids, and it has worked fabulously, I have no plans to ever use an atf in my manual transmissions.
 
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Is Amsoil MTF GL-4 or 5 and is it thicker or thinner than Redline D4ATF or MTL?


At 100°C

MTF = 9.6 cSt
D4 = 7.5
MTL = 10.6

They all have GL-4 level additives.
 
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