bought a new 2007 mercury grand marquis and ford calls for 5w20..is this a must for tight clearances? or can i use 5w30?
5w20 for 2007 grand marquis.help!!
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I just bought a 2008 Mustang GT with the 4.6L V8. Not exactly the same 4.6L engine as in your Grand Marq, but close enough.
I've been pondering this same issue for the past couple of months. I've done as much research as I can on this, and I am now convinced that the 5w20 spec is all about CAFE regulations. From what I can tell, Ford specs 5w30 for these engines outside of North America. That in itself is telling.
Most 5w20 oils have HT/HS of about 2.65. Amsoil 0w20 has HT/HS of 2.8.
Most 5w30 oils have HT/HS around 3.1.
I personally feel more comfortable with a slightly heavier oil in my engine. Therefore I've decided to switch to Amsoil SSO 0w30 at my next oil change. It has HT/HS of 3.2, excellent flow characteristics, and incredibly high TBN for a gas engine oil. I don't have any particular loyalty to Amsoil, it's just that the specs for this oil seem to be better than all of the others. It's also more expensive.
I'm planning to run it at 7,500 mile OCIs while the car is under warranty along with a couple UOAs just to satisfy my curiosity.
My second choice would be Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 based on the good UOAs it's getting here.
I've been pondering this same issue for the past couple of months. I've done as much research as I can on this, and I am now convinced that the 5w20 spec is all about CAFE regulations. From what I can tell, Ford specs 5w30 for these engines outside of North America. That in itself is telling.
Most 5w20 oils have HT/HS of about 2.65. Amsoil 0w20 has HT/HS of 2.8.
Most 5w30 oils have HT/HS around 3.1.
I personally feel more comfortable with a slightly heavier oil in my engine. Therefore I've decided to switch to Amsoil SSO 0w30 at my next oil change. It has HT/HS of 3.2, excellent flow characteristics, and incredibly high TBN for a gas engine oil. I don't have any particular loyalty to Amsoil, it's just that the specs for this oil seem to be better than all of the others. It's also more expensive.
I'm planning to run it at 7,500 mile OCIs while the car is under warranty along with a couple UOAs just to satisfy my curiosity.
My second choice would be Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 based on the good UOAs it's getting here.
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Why the fear of Xw-20? Seriously this is a great oil viscosity - and really "feelings" have nothing to do with it!
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Use whatever gives you peace of mind. It's worth a lot. If that means using a 30 weight, then do so. A 20 weight and a 30 weight appear the same at some point in the warm up transition and appear more alike the longer the warm up transition progresses.
Originally Posted By: Bookmaker
I'm planning to run it at 7,500 mile OCIs while the car is under warranty along with a couple UOAs just to satisfy my curiosity.
It doesn't make sense...you are following the OCIs because your vehicle is under warranty yet you aren't following the spec'd viscosity. If something were to happen and you had to give up your receipts, don't you think they'd question that? If you are going to punt one, punt them both and go for extended drains.
I'm planning to run it at 7,500 mile OCIs while the car is under warranty along with a couple UOAs just to satisfy my curiosity.
It doesn't make sense...you are following the OCIs because your vehicle is under warranty yet you aren't following the spec'd viscosity. If something were to happen and you had to give up your receipts, don't you think they'd question that? If you are going to punt one, punt them both and go for extended drains.
Peace of mind IS worth a lot.
Outside of North America Ford seems to be recommending 5w30 for these engines. The Shelby GT500s, which have the 5.4L SC engine spec a 5w50. The 5.4L engine is not radically different than the 3V 4.6L engine.
The 3V 4.6L engine in the current Mustang is a more high performance engine compared to the 4.6L engine in the Grand Marq.
I will likely be doing some spirited driving in this car, so I think a slightly heavier oil film at the bearings is a good thing. I didn't buy this car for the great gas mileage...
I will consider extending drains to 10K after a couple UOAs are done. To do so without UOAs would be foolish. 10K is the interval I use for my VW TDIs and my Dodge/Cummins. If the Amsoil SSO holds up for 10K in the Mustang I'll be very pleased about that. I'm not into the "how far can I push it" game though. 10K would be my max.
Outside of North America Ford seems to be recommending 5w30 for these engines. The Shelby GT500s, which have the 5.4L SC engine spec a 5w50. The 5.4L engine is not radically different than the 3V 4.6L engine.
The 3V 4.6L engine in the current Mustang is a more high performance engine compared to the 4.6L engine in the Grand Marq.
I will likely be doing some spirited driving in this car, so I think a slightly heavier oil film at the bearings is a good thing. I didn't buy this car for the great gas mileage...
I will consider extending drains to 10K after a couple UOAs are done. To do so without UOAs would be foolish. 10K is the interval I use for my VW TDIs and my Dodge/Cummins. If the Amsoil SSO holds up for 10K in the Mustang I'll be very pleased about that. I'm not into the "how far can I push it" game though. 10K would be my max.
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Originally Posted By: globey
Originally Posted By: Bookmaker
I'm planning to run it at 7,500 mile OCIs while the car is under warranty along with a couple UOAs just to satisfy my curiosity.
It doesn't make sense...you are following the OCIs because your vehicle is under warranty yet you aren't following the spec'd viscosity. If something were to happen and you had to give up your receipts, don't you think they'd question that? If you are going to punt one, punt them both and go for extended drains.
Interesting point. People won't use certain oils because they "think" the oil will violate the warranty, yet they will readily violate a HARD warranty requirement to get peace of mind. Is that a conundrum? An enigma? Or just human nature.
Feeling good is all well and good, but when based on misdirected hope, it just seems strange. I'm not saying a great 0W-30 harm anything and Amsoil actually stands by the usage of SSO in many XW-20 engines. Also Gary the Allan has an excellent point about temp transitions - most people don't think along those lines.
Originally Posted By: Bookmaker
I'm planning to run it at 7,500 mile OCIs while the car is under warranty along with a couple UOAs just to satisfy my curiosity.
It doesn't make sense...you are following the OCIs because your vehicle is under warranty yet you aren't following the spec'd viscosity. If something were to happen and you had to give up your receipts, don't you think they'd question that? If you are going to punt one, punt them both and go for extended drains.
Interesting point. People won't use certain oils because they "think" the oil will violate the warranty, yet they will readily violate a HARD warranty requirement to get peace of mind. Is that a conundrum? An enigma? Or just human nature.
Feeling good is all well and good, but when based on misdirected hope, it just seems strange. I'm not saying a great 0W-30 harm anything and Amsoil actually stands by the usage of SSO in many XW-20 engines. Also Gary the Allan has an excellent point about temp transitions - most people don't think along those lines.
I highly doubt that Ford would void my warranty for using a 0w30 weight oil in this engine. I could see them viewing a 10K OCI as neglect though.
The 0w30 will work fine. You guys act like I'm going to tear a hole in the universe or something.
The 0w30 will work fine. You guys act like I'm going to tear a hole in the universe or something.
Originally Posted By: Bookmaker
I highly doubt that Ford would void my warranty for using a 0w30 weight oil in this engine. I could see them viewing a 10K OCI as neglect though.
The 0w30 will work fine. You guys act like I'm going to tear a hole in the universe or something.
I kinda agree, and I highly doubt Ford will know. But it's just such an interesting straw man discussion - the reasons I've heard over the years with Amsoil and warranty stuff. 0W-30 will work fine - it's just mainly a "don't bash the Xw-20" thing - because it is true, these have been some truly GREAT oils.
I highly doubt that Ford would void my warranty for using a 0w30 weight oil in this engine. I could see them viewing a 10K OCI as neglect though.
The 0w30 will work fine. You guys act like I'm going to tear a hole in the universe or something.
I kinda agree, and I highly doubt Ford will know. But it's just such an interesting straw man discussion - the reasons I've heard over the years with Amsoil and warranty stuff. 0W-30 will work fine - it's just mainly a "don't bash the Xw-20" thing - because it is true, these have been some truly GREAT oils.
Pablo's right...I was just curious what the reasoning was and why someone is so willing to stay to strict OCIs yet not follow manufacturer's specs.
I'm NOT saying Ford would even know what oil you used...they could based off receipts though. Even so, I doubt they'd void a warranty based on that, though I don't know.
No one is acting like it's a horrible injustice or "you'd tear a hole in the universe," just merely asking the question. I used 5W-30 in my 5W-20 spec'd Fusion when I found a real good deal on some synthetic. I prefer the 5W-20 I'm running now, but I had no problem using the 5W-30.
I'm NOT saying Ford would even know what oil you used...they could based off receipts though. Even so, I doubt they'd void a warranty based on that, though I don't know.
No one is acting like it's a horrible injustice or "you'd tear a hole in the universe," just merely asking the question. I used 5W-30 in my 5W-20 spec'd Fusion when I found a real good deal on some synthetic. I prefer the 5W-20 I'm running now, but I had no problem using the 5W-30.
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For reference, Amsoil came out with a 0W-30 used by the trucking industry to save on fuel costs. I believe it's reported to save 0.7% in fuel costs. But a Volvo trucking fleet reported higher wear numbers with 0W-30 over the 15W-40 typically used. These are hard numbers we can mull over. But the question remains... Is the trade-off for higher fuel mileage worth the loss in wear protection?
Not knowing whether these wear numbers are serious enough to shorten the life of an engine, I can't give an opinion. What I have noticed though, is that there are many anal people on this board that focus on long engine life when in reality most engines that see proper oil maintenance (regardless of the nuances of oil choice) outlive the rest of the car. Usually, the body of the car gives up, or the owner loses interest in the car long before the engine needs replacement because of lubrication failure. I'm on the fence for this one.
Not knowing whether these wear numbers are serious enough to shorten the life of an engine, I can't give an opinion. What I have noticed though, is that there are many anal people on this board that focus on long engine life when in reality most engines that see proper oil maintenance (regardless of the nuances of oil choice) outlive the rest of the car. Usually, the body of the car gives up, or the owner loses interest in the car long before the engine needs replacement because of lubrication failure. I'm on the fence for this one.
I just bought a Navigator with the 5.4 dual cam and I was shocked to see that it calls for a 5w20. I guess its just old school thinking that a bigger engine needs a thicker oil? I'm still torn which way to go on this one.
I would think some people that are facing the use of 20 wt. oils for the first time are not concerned with "using 5W-20 will not adversely affect your engine", but what weight will best enhance (protect) my engine. Of coarse there are plenty of arguments both ways. Heavier is better, lighter is superior. More time and comparisons will tell. Some have written that Xw-20 is the miracle elixir, protection coupled with excellent flow and fuel economy to boot. Some say that 20 wt. just can not hold up in a combustion engine. I believe we are finding that it can, and quite well.
Originally Posted By: Bookmaker
I highly doubt that Ford would void my warranty for using a 0w30 weight oil in this engine. I could see them viewing a 10K OCI as neglect though.
The 0w30 will work fine. You guys act like I'm going to tear a hole in the universe or something.
Actually, I worked at a Ford dealership for a few years mainly in parts but I floated as needed in Service. Ford( any car mfg actually )absolutely WILL consider the wrong weight oil as a reason to void your engine warranty if the failure is lubrication related. Don't for a second think they won't. They will. I saw it at the dealer I worked at were 5W-30 was called for and 20W-50 was used. A camshaft bearing on a 5.0L Mustang was damaged and the warranty was voided because the wrong weight was used.
Not saying this is going to happen just that it can. Many factors play into it. Does the dealership doing the work care is the 1st hurdle to cross. If they don't chances are you are fine unless the car mfg sends a tech out to the dealership to investigate the failure. One of the things they might check is the oil to see that you used the right stuff. My Sister's Impala had engine failure and they couldn't determine why. GM sent a tech to the dealership and they planned on testing the oil but didn't because the paperwork was present to show the right stuff was used. She got a new engine.
If the dealer does care they can ask you to provide slips showing the proper oil was used and that the OC's were done on time. I actually did that myself as a SW and have had it requested of me in the past. Not an uncommon request when a failure occurs and you better be able to show you used the right stuff. Just as you would not go 10K on the OCI for fear of voiding the warranty don;t use a non specified weight oil either.
Stick with 5W-20 as called for. Just look for the best one you can find. YOur call but remember it can lead to warranty issues. Will it? Doubtful. But can it? Yup!
BTW - the 5W-20 will be fine. My brother's F250 Super Duty work truck with the 5.4L calls for 5W-20. That poor truck gets beat something fierce hauling a 16" utility trailer with all our tools almost daily. 100K and going strong! He doesn;t change it as often as he should either. Probably 8K before he gets around to it. Makes me cringe frankly. AT least I got him to use synthetic oil. He uses M1 or PP. Whichever they have and is cheapest when he needs it. IF he can use 5W-20 in such an application you certainly are fine with it in your GM.
I highly doubt that Ford would void my warranty for using a 0w30 weight oil in this engine. I could see them viewing a 10K OCI as neglect though.
The 0w30 will work fine. You guys act like I'm going to tear a hole in the universe or something.
Actually, I worked at a Ford dealership for a few years mainly in parts but I floated as needed in Service. Ford( any car mfg actually )absolutely WILL consider the wrong weight oil as a reason to void your engine warranty if the failure is lubrication related. Don't for a second think they won't. They will. I saw it at the dealer I worked at were 5W-30 was called for and 20W-50 was used. A camshaft bearing on a 5.0L Mustang was damaged and the warranty was voided because the wrong weight was used.
Not saying this is going to happen just that it can. Many factors play into it. Does the dealership doing the work care is the 1st hurdle to cross. If they don't chances are you are fine unless the car mfg sends a tech out to the dealership to investigate the failure. One of the things they might check is the oil to see that you used the right stuff. My Sister's Impala had engine failure and they couldn't determine why. GM sent a tech to the dealership and they planned on testing the oil but didn't because the paperwork was present to show the right stuff was used. She got a new engine.
If the dealer does care they can ask you to provide slips showing the proper oil was used and that the OC's were done on time. I actually did that myself as a SW and have had it requested of me in the past. Not an uncommon request when a failure occurs and you better be able to show you used the right stuff. Just as you would not go 10K on the OCI for fear of voiding the warranty don;t use a non specified weight oil either.
Stick with 5W-20 as called for. Just look for the best one you can find. YOur call but remember it can lead to warranty issues. Will it? Doubtful. But can it? Yup!
BTW - the 5W-20 will be fine. My brother's F250 Super Duty work truck with the 5.4L calls for 5W-20. That poor truck gets beat something fierce hauling a 16" utility trailer with all our tools almost daily. 100K and going strong! He doesn;t change it as often as he should either. Probably 8K before he gets around to it. Makes me cringe frankly. AT least I got him to use synthetic oil. He uses M1 or PP. Whichever they have and is cheapest when he needs it. IF he can use 5W-20 in such an application you certainly are fine with it in your GM.
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The Amsoil ASM 0w20 was the heaviest 20wt I could find. It had the best HT/HS at 2.8 also. If I were to go with a 20wt, that's the one I'd pick. I'm still going to go with the SSO 0w30 though and its HT/HS of 3.2.
Let the UOA's tell the tale. I have a few with different 5w-20's and a 0w-20 on my wife's Taurus and they were all fine.
That said, the bottom-line best UOA I ever got on it was with Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30. Now I run 5w-20 most of the year except for the mid-summer OCI where I run 5w-30.
That said, the bottom-line best UOA I ever got on it was with Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30. Now I run 5w-20 most of the year except for the mid-summer OCI where I run 5w-30.
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