Tire Rotation - Never paying for a rotation again.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
434
Location
Canada,North America,Western Hemisphere,Earth,Milk
Exceprt from here .
The owner's manual for my 2000 BMW 328i says in the interests of safety and handling, I should NOT rotate my tires. And it implies that tire rotation will not extend the life of the tires in a meaningful way. But the instructions with my new tires (not to mention those from the tire reseller and the mechanic who services my car) all suggest periodic rotation. To rotate, or not to rotate? -- Larry

Beat up old carTOM: This was one of the great civic debates of the 20th century, Larry.

RAY: Make that 20th AND 21st.

TOM: We've always felt that tire rotation is of marginal value in terms of saving you money. Why? Because the cost of tire rotation roughly equals the amount you'd save by extending your tire life.

RAY: You can see why mechanics like it. Not only is it an easy few bucks for us, but it also gets your car into the shop again so we can sell you other services -- like engine flushes and fuzzy-dice reupholstering!

TOM: So, our feeling has always been that if the tire rotation is free, do it. In other words, if you're having your brakes checked, and the wheels are already off the car and your mechanic is nice enough to put them back on different wheels for nothing, then do it. That's what we do for our customers.

RAY: Actually, we just get confused, and don't remember where the wheels came from. So we tell our customers, "We THINK we rotated your tires."

TOM: But if you have to pay for tire rotation as a separate service, it's pretty much a wash, as far as we can tell.

RAY: As for BMW, it figures that anyone who buys a BMW places handling above a few bucks. And in many cases, its cars come with directional tires, which are only supposed to be rotated front to back. When you rotate that way, you're supposed to do it every 3,000 miles, which further reduces any economic advantage.

TOM: BMW cites safety because the front and rear tires develop different wear patterns. And for at least a little while -- until the wear evens out, which is the point of tire rotation -- you might have slightly inferior handling with newly rotated tires.

RAY: It's a technicality, and very few drivers would ever notice it, but BMW is, technically, correct.

TOM: Still, we see nothing wrong with rotating your tires. No harm will be done, in our opinion. But if you're paying your BMW mechanic $125 an hour to move your tires around (and eight bucks a wheel for rebalancing, too), it's very unlikely you'll save any money in the long run, Larry.
 
I always felt the same way with rotating tires. "by the way, we noticed that when we took your tires off, your front brake pad has only 15% life left, it will be $400 total for brake pad replacement"
 
Self rotate tires cost 0.

I've noticed on the super duty if the tires are not rotated inside to outside only the outside tires wear. I dont rotate this truck any more. gets to little milage and the tires are all dry rotted long before the tires wearmarkers are hit.
 
I rarely rotate my tires, it's a 4x4, so they cup. Twice in a 70k - 85k lifetime. That's all!
 
There are some things that I do to my cars that I don't recommend for a non-DIYer. I don't recommend that my friends pay for tire rotation or for a power steering fluid flush, or for a pan drop to exchange the trans fluid (except for the first service).

Personally, I rotate my tires maybe once at midlife of the tires. My goal is to have all four will wear down to zero at the same time.
 
The biggest plus I see with rotating tires is you can get them to all wear down about the same time so you can buy 4 new ones at once.
 
I always get the $60 lifetime rotate and balance package at Discount Tire and always have it done ~5k miles. That works out to about $6 per service over the life of the tires. I've never had a vehicle that didn't feel better on the road after having it done. I just can't see a good excuse not to r&b tires.
 
Here's the theory behind tire rotation:

Steer tires tend to wear in the shoulders. Drive tires tend to wear in the center. (Assuming the alignmment is pretty close to perfect)

On RWD the wear rates are about the same so front and rear tires wear out at about the same time - except there is tread left: On the shoulders in the rear, in the center on the fronts.

Rotating tires on RWD cars evens this out and you get a bit more miles out of a set.

I was asked to quantify this once, so I looked up several wear tests our company had run. I don't remember the details about the test - needless to say it was highly structured and controlled and the vehicle alignment was "spot on" - and I do remember it was on a RWD, as I could see the differences in wear patterns prior to rotation. (BTW, this was in the days when we used dial indicators to measure the tread depths. We use a laser scanner now and it does the whole tire with one push of a button!)

OK, aside from verifying the wear pattern difference an RWD, it also verified that immediately after the rotation, the wear pattern gradually changed in the direction of the pattern of the tire previously there.

The net effect was that there was about a 10% improvment in projected mileage. This isn't a lot - not enough to justify paying for rotations, but certainly worth it for cheap [censored] people like moi!

Oh - I forgot to talk about FWD.

On FWD the front tires are both the steers and the drives, so the wear tends to be even in both front and rear - BUT the wear rates are quite different - about 2 to 2 1/2 times faster in the front - and the overall wear rate, if rotated, is about the same as a RWD.

The problem here is that because the wear rate on the rear is so slow, any imperfection in the alignment will tend to cause irregular wear (a common problem on free wheeling axles). This means that you will eventually develop diagonal wear before the tire wears out - the degree will depend on how far off the alignment is. Tires on the outer edge of being "in spec" will start to show this diagonal wear at about 20,000 miles. This will be experienced as noise or vibration long before you can see it or feel it.

The net effect is that the tire will have spots that are worn out and spots that have tread. Rotating the tires not only evens this out, but also allows the tire to use all the tread rubber available.

I've heard the arguement that rotating tires disguises an alignment problem - and that is so. For those that pay close attention to their tire wear, monitoring the evenness of wear will tell you things about your alignment. But I wouldn't go more than 20,000 miles between rotations as this tends to make the wear a little too uneven to completely recover - and if you haven't picked up an alignment problem by then, you don't have one.

Which brings me to the Original Posting - obviously Click and Clack, the Tappet brothers.

BMW builds in a bit more camber than most everyone else. That promotes great handling - something they are justifiably proud of.

However, this camber tends to make the tires wear funny. When BMW engineers test vehicles just after the tires have been rotated, they say they don't handle as well - uh, duh!! The footprint is different. - and they don't want to change their non-rotation policy because of it. They really don't care if the wear is not even. They have the European outlook that says tires aren't supposed to get 30,000 miles - they are supposed to grip the road.

Needless to say, I am a fan of rotating tires - and the less you pay attention to your tires, the more frequently I think you should rotate.

But I am also not a fan of spending money. If it is free, go for it. If you have to pay - find a place that will do it for free!
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
On RWD the wear rates are about the same so front and rear tires wear out at about the same time - except there is tread left: On the shoulders in the rear, in the center on the fronts.

Hmm... that has not been my experience. Within 15k miles, my rears are practically down to wear bars and my fronts are at about 6/32", measured in the center of the tread. And strangely, on both fronts are rears, the centers are worn out more than the shoulders. I suppose that's partly due to using slightly higher than recommended PSI though.
 
Yet another 5 star post from CapriRacer....

Free tire rotations and rebalancing (along with free flat repairs) comes with the $9.76 install package at Sam's.

So, rotations are pretty cheap for me as well. Plus, I don't have to rotate the tires on the motorcycle either.
 
Excellent Post, CapriRacer. That one deserves to have a sticky attached to it.

Theoretically, it has always made sense that a tire roation would extend the life of the treads. But by how much? I've only seen speculation. Only 10% extension in mileage? No wonder BMW is scoffing at tire rotation, if you only get that much extra mileage versus the handling changes.

On my rear wheel driven car, I do get the rear tires showing more wear down the middle and the front tires showing more wear on the shoulders.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
The biggest plus I see with rotating tires is you can get them to all wear down about the same time so you can buy 4 new ones at once.

Yup, so as soon as I notice fronts worn down past rears (fwd), I cross-rotate them. No way I'm buying tires in pairs.

CapriRacer: Fantastic post (again)!
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I've said it for a long time, rotating increases wear rate.


then why does practically every car manual say to rotate and even show you how to do it?

i do my own so it is free
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Kestas
There are some things that I do to my cars that I don't recommend for a non-DIYer. I don't recommend that my friends pay for tire rotation or for a power steering fluid flush, or for a pan drop to exchange the trans fluid (except for the first service).

Personally, I rotate my tires maybe once at midlife of the tires. My goal is to have all four will wear down to zero at the same time.


If you have a legitimate mechanic they will actually do what is called a transmission flush where we basically tap into the trans cooler lines and let the trans pump old fluid into the machine as the machine pumps in new fluid at an equal rate. Just dropping the pan is pretty close to being useless. How much do you change? 2-3 quarts? A trans can hold upwards of 10 quarts.

And to the OP, I know my shop offers free lifetime rotation with the purchase of any 4 tires, and my father did and still rotates his own tires on all of his vehicles. If the tires are the same size front to rear, it absolutely makes sense to do so. On most FWD passenger cars, the front tires wear out far quicker than the rears will, so by rotating them, you theoretically end up at the same place in the end with a safety advantage... all tires are wearing equally. You wont have understeer by putting the the old ones on the front and you wont have a dangerous oversteering car by putting the new ones up front.

I have seen time and time again that tire rotation extends tire life.
 
We have 65k on a stock set of Conti's on a 04 Escape. Rotations every 6-8k if not sooner. Quite a feat seeing that most only get 30-40k out of those same tires. But this really isn't unusual to me as this is the fourth set of various tires I've gotten over 60k out of and all got regular rotations, Tiger Paws - Long Trails are two of them. Other sets that wasn't feasible due to size I've only gotten 25-35k out of them.

Nobody will convince me that rotations isn't worth it.. even more so due to Road Hazard and the lifetime rotations plans many places offer for around $40 for 4 tires. The only thing I'm unsure of is balancing and how often it's needed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top