European Oils vs American/Canadian Oils

[ctrcbob]

I know I've mentioned this before about European Oils being better than American/Canadian oils (or perhaps their cars are better???) but here is something interesting.

I vacation in Europe every two or three years, and always lease a car from Renault USA (Renault Eurodrive) http://www.renaultusa.com and today I received a flyer from them with the cars available for 2008. (No I'm not going this year but perhaps once the Dollar gains some value). The last two times I leased a new Renault Laguna, in the owners manual, the OCI "First Service" was listed as 30,000km which is aprox 18,750 miles. OK, this flyer I just got shows all the cars available and when the "First Service" is to be done.

1. Cars with Diesel engines call for First Service at either 9,000 or 12,000 miles, depending on which car.

2. Cars with Gasoline engines call for First Service at either 12,000 miles or 18,000 miles, depending on which car.

BTW, my Laguna is listed at 12,000 miles. Next trip, will check the owners manual to see if it still says every 30,000km

 

[Scuderia]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think no European oil company can advertise their GrpIII oils as Full or 100% synthetic. At least not in Europe.

 

[MGregoir]

Higher TBN oils, oils tested by manufacturers much more thoroughly, tougher ACEA specs which are more specific as to HT/HS, the majority of oils are group III based at a minimum, higher oil pan volumes, all sorts of stuff.

If you ran a synthetic oil in a V6 engine that had an 8 quart oil pan, with a TBN similar to that of a diesel oil, and was shear stable enough to stay basically in grade for 18,000 miles not to mention being a heavy enough grade to cope with high temperature and fuel dilution; is it really that different than running 4 quarts of a group III oil with a moderate additive package that is thinner and shears down but gets drained every 7,500 miles?

Devil in the details.

 

[Johnny]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
I know I've mentioned this before about European Oils being better than American/Canadian oils (or perhaps their cars are better???) but here is something interesting.

I vacation in Europe every two or three years, and always lease a car from Renault USA (Renault Eurodrive) http://www.renaultusa.com and today I received a flyer from them with the cars available for 2008. (No I'm not going this year but perhaps once the Dollar gains some value). The last two times I leased a new Renault Laguna, in the owners manual, the OCI "First Service" was listed as 30,000km which is aprox 18,750 miles. OK, this flyer I just got shows all the cars available and when the "First Service" is to be done.

1. Cars with Diesel engines call for First Service at either 9,000 or 12,000 miles, depending on which car.

2. Cars with Gasoline engines call for First Service at either 12,000 miles or 18,000 miles, depending on which car.

BTW, my Laguna is listed at 12,000 miles. Next trip, will check the owners manual to see if it still says every 30,000km


Don't know about the oil issues, but thanks for the great website. The wife and I are planning a trip to England next year and this would be a great way to see the country.

 

[ikeepmychevytoo]

Up to 30K miles on diesel VW with oil ife sensors. But the total price for oil is could still be higher plus all the drag of a 40 weight.

 

[Big O Dave]

I guess a Renault can last 60 days or so before wearing out or breaking down...

 

[ctrcbob]

Johnny,

I see that the only pickup location in the UK is London. If you do, you will probably get a RHD car, vs the LHD cars offered in the other European countries. If you do pick up and drop off in the UK, I hope you have driven on the left side of the road before. (I did back in 1960 and 1961). If you have not driven on that side of the road, my best advice (other than have someone else drive for you) is when you want to go around a corner or curve, know where you are, and look exactly where you want to go before you go into the turn. On the continent, they drive on the right side of the road, just like the USA/Canada.

I always pick up and drop off at Paris CDG across from T3. I have used them in 1989, 1991, 1994, 1999, 2002, and 2006.
The first three times, I leased R21's. The last three times, I leased Laguna'a. (Big-O-Dave; Great Cars) Never had any problems with any of them. My R21 in 1991 was a Diesel, and all the others were Gasoline. My 1999 Laguna was a 1600cc. My 2002 Laguna (my favorate) was an 1800cc and my 2006 Laguna was 2000cc.

Lastly, expect European cars to be UGLY. The Renault Laguna is not bad looking but most are UGLY. One beautiful car is the Peugeot 607. Beautiful. The 507 aint bad either. Most other European cars (except the Mercedes and Volvos that are sold here) are ugly.

Now, back to oil. Back in 1991 (or was it 1989) right after Motul 2100 was introduced to the USA (for motorcycles) , I got the brainstorm idea that I would buy a case in France and bring it back to the USA with me. WRONG. First off, I found that it cost four times the cost in the USA and second, I found that Motul 2100 was a regular oil, used for cars, and sold in discount stores. (Remember, this was back in 89 or 91 and Motul 2100 was the best they had back then).

 

[Rollins]

Originally Posted By: Scuderia
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think no European oil company can advertise their GrpIII oils as Full or 100% synthetic. At least not in Europe.

Yes,they`re usually labelled as "synthetic technology","synthetic","syn" etc.The oils labelled "Vollsynthetisch","Fully synthetic" are indeed what they claim to be.
I don`t know whether it`s legislation or just good will...

 

[LexusAussie]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
Lastly, expect European cars to be UGLY. The Renault Laguna is not bad looking but most are UGLY. One beautiful car is the Peugeot 607. Beautiful. The 507 aint bad either. Most other European cars (except the Mercedes and Volvos that are sold here) are ugly.


Most modern french cars are ugly. BMW's, Merc's, italian cars and others are OK.

 

[lars11]

Well, I wrote about this in other posts and it is strange that people here wants to do analysis to go beyond 10000kms while car companies here do 20-30k kms service intervals...
We bought a new Peugeot 307 at Christmas and this is the data:
- OCI: 30 000 kms (19000 miles) or two years
- Rec oil: Statoil 5w40 full synthetic SL or SM
- Warranties: The car has a 93 000 mile or 8 years engine warranty provided the cam shaft belt was changed by a peugeot dealer. Other services can be done by anyone.

If the car was only supposed to last a couple of years, I would understand if the OCI was at a detrimental lenght. But with the warrany, I will have to assume that the OCI will actually make the engine last at an average much longer that the 8 yrs/100k miles to keep Peugeot in business. By the way, I like the 307 and it is much roomier than it looks. Our Grand Cherokee is not that much more roomy

 

[Saab9-3]

Better built engines over in Europe ?

 

[lars11]

Could be, but sounds strange in today's global economy.

 

[glennc]

I've often wondered about this. Euros tend to use thicker oils with higher VI, usually synthetic these days, and probably run them harder on average. The oils are extremely expensive over there, so a change is more costly, and typical change intervals are long.

Here we tend to run dino, in thinner grades for fuel economy, and change it very often; certainly way too often. Oil changes are cheap. We don't use our cars quite as hard, perhaps, but we probably have more extreme temperatures overall and we probably keep our cars to higher mileages on average.

I am somewhat curious about why the patterns differ so much. Is it due mainly to our differing conditions, or cultures, or differing misconceptions, or misconceptions on one side, or what else?

One thing for me is I would not go the mileages I hear of for European cars without UOA. Too many of the UOAs I've seen at those mileages have thickened oil and accelerated wear. Of course I no longer subscribe to the more-often-is-better belief either. I'm comfortable with 7-15k depending on the car and the oil.

 

[Craig in Canada]

I expect that, in general (you know how generalizations are), euro cars have larger sumps. I'm not sure I've ever seen a euro car of any displacement with less than a 6-7 L sump. (I'm sure they're out there, it's just an illustration). I'm sure this goes a long way towards longer OCIs compared to 4L sumps.

In hindsight it's kind of funny how experts and "experts" here at BITOG yack authoritatively to other members about what OCIs are too long or too short often without asking or considering the sump capacity of the vehicle in question.

 

[lars11]

Yes, I forgot the sump. It is less than 4 liters in the Peugeot.

- In many cases I think it is cultural. I was taught to always chang oil at 10k when a kid.
- Or maybe it is the engines that is softer on oil? really?
- Then it is fuel. You run bigger cars/engines that uses more fuel. There seem to be a strong correlation with amount of fuel through the engine and OCI.
- Then it seems that the fuel here is cleaner according to some engineers that I've spoken to. Can that explain something?

About the driving distance. I don't have the numbers but I really think that cars are being driven here too. At least in northern europe, people really drive a lot.
Maybe the average car in Sweden are run 20kkm yearly and a german car quite much longer.

 

[sprintman]

BMW I just purchased has a 6.9 U.S quart sump. Think about that when you compare OCI's

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
I'm not sure I've ever seen a euro car of any displacement with less than a 6-7 L sump.


Have you actually looked?

Plenty Euro-made cars have sumps with under 5 liter capacity. My Audi takes 5 liters.

 

[ikeepmychevytoo]

I think nowadays it is the heyday for competition based on the maintenance in Eu. In US it was the 70's, and 12.5k mile change interval was unheard in '75, may be three times as long the Eu average back then. What happened? I think this is mainly the mandated no-lead gas (to add Lars' comment on correlation with gas consumption), and partially the competition while publishing ads with the service intervals. (They mandated no-lead glasses here and every glass maker suddenly turned out to an environment angel with a halo. A commercial corridor created.)

My US car, Canadian built with export provisions with non-catalyst emssions system able to consume leaded gas. Reccomended OCI on the manual: 3k mile with leaded gas, 12.5 with no-lead. With SF oil. To give an idea of fuels effect on OCI.