Shell Helix' answer to Additives

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Shell chemists have heard the cry from BITOG and last year (2007)released the new Helix range of engine oils with special cleaners.

The press release strongly indicates it will clean your engine, make it quieter, perform better Shell confirms all of this by having surveyed over 1200 taxi drivers and regular motorists in 4 countries. Read on……the links are provided below.

Combine this new wave of engine oils with low sulphur fuels and proper maintenance will potentially make all additives obsolete.

Shell Helix Launch 2007
http://www.shell.com/home/content/my-en/news_and_library/press_releases/2007/helixlaunch_0613.html

Shell Helix Cleansing Your Engine
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=my-en&FC2=/my-en/html/iwgen/shell_for_motorists/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/my-en/tailored/shell_for_motorists/oils_lubricants/helix_new/cleansing_ga_0312.html
 
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This is the same answer Castrol GTX & Pennsoil Preminium have unfortunately they can,t remove existing sludge either.

How well these oil,s can stop sludge from forming with out reducing lubricity of there oil,s pose an intereting question.

How do you think solvent flushes will work with the additive chemistry in these fine oil,s ?

Shell did not hear any call from bitog they saw market share dropping in this particular vertical market from competition.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Frank


How well these oil,s can stop sludge from forming with out reducing lubricity of there oil,s pose an intereting question.

How do you think solvent flushes will work with the additive chemistry in these fine oil,s ?

Shell did not hear any call from bitog they saw market share dropping in this particular vertical market from competition.



If I put your product in my oil will it hurt lubricity? Who knows, maybe they have some type of new ester chemistry they are using. Have you tested it?

Why would you care how solvent flushes work in any oil?

I agree BITOG had nothing to do with this, but I doubt you know anything about their market share.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Yeah, they have been doing the same thing with Pennzoil Platinum. What is in this stuff? Johnny???


Brian, I don't have a clue and neither does anyone else unless they want to spend the money to chemically break it down.
 
Oh I'm just curious. It's just interesting that all the sudden both Mobil1 and Shell/Pennzoil are advertising sludge cleaning ability, not just sludge "fighting." Is this some new additive chemistry that's trickling down into the oils or just new marketing for us sludge paranoid folks???
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Now I feel like my BOGO PP from 1.5 years ago is inferior to the sludge-fighting PP of today.
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Originally Posted By: Frank
This is the same answer Castrol GTX & Pennsoil Preminium have unfortunately they can,t remove existing sludge either.

How well these oil,s can stop sludge from forming with out reducing lubricity of there oil,s pose an intereting question.

How do you think solvent flushes will work with the additive chemistry in these fine oil,s ?

Shell did not hear any call from bitog they saw market share dropping in this particular vertical market from competition.



Frank

When I posted this, it was to inform BITOG members that Shell claims to have a product that may deliver what we at this site are all trying to do. Find an oil that has it all ie ARX cleaning benefits + engine oil protection.

The CRY from BITOG is plainly, "that our unquenchable thirst to find the best product to keep an engine clean, install an engine oil that has the motor perfroming at its best, so we can enjoy the best return on our investment"

I phrased it in such a manner to get your attention, it worked, and do agree that I doubt if Shell or others have BITOG under the microscope.

In the last 3 years at this site I have observed we are all searching for a single oil that can do it all, this may be one small step towards achieving that goal.
 
How about this for a different take on all of this? You notice how all of these companies are advertising about how their new motor oil formulations can reduce or even remove sludge? Well, I think that should tell us just how important keeping an engine clean really is.

A person using a quality brand of motor oil changes frequently enough could probably keep an engine reasonably clean for a long time. But if there is any sludge in the engine on seals (which can cause leaks), on rings, and elsewhere, it is nice to have a product that can remove the sludge safely. It Stands to reason that if the engine is cleaned pretty well it will probably run better.

Well, Auto-RX seems to get the job done safely. There are other products that may work also. I really don't like the idea of using strong solvents to try to clean an engine. I have some faith in BG and Lubegard products.

I think there are few if any oils that will really clean a dirty engine. A quality oil changed often enough may well greatly reduce sludge but there can still be some sludge build up in an engine, especially in some engines that seem to be especially sludge prone.

Anyway, if $25.00 or so spent on Auto-RX and an Auto-RX cleaning every 25,000 miles will make the engine run better and allow the vehicle to be driven much longer I think that seems like a reasonable investment.
 
Hi

There may well be a need to use an additive cleaner at some point, if oil manufacturers produce better quality products in a single package then this ideal.

Let's focus on the total engine oil package. Perhaps soon there maybe a single oil that can do it all.
 
Calling Doc Haas

Doc have you had a chance to evaluate the new SM version of the Shell Helix 5w-40 factory fill in respect to:
1. Cleansing properties
2. Quietening engine noise
3. Slightly thinner formulation improves fuel economy ie meets requirements of MB Sheet 229.5.

As you are one of the most knowledge regarding the factory fill of Ferrari you may be able to contribute to the adversting claims for the version below.

Kinematic Viscosity Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40
spec's as at March 2007
@ 40°C, cSt 76.3
@ 100°C, cSt 13.8
Viscosity Index 187
Density @ 15°C, kg/l 0.851
Flash Point (PMCC),°C 206
Pour Point, °C -42

Shell Helix Ultra exceeds the requirements of all major car manufacturers and the following industry standards:
API SM/CF
ACEA A3-04, B3-04 & B4-04
VW 500.00, 502.00, 505.00
Japanese Engines Qualified
Porsche Approved
BMW BMW Longlife-01

Peugeot-Citroen Meets requirements of PSA E-98 extended
drain (Level 2 for application)

Mercedes Benz Sheet 229.5
Ferrari Factory Fill and Sole
Service Fill Recommendation
Renault RN 0710 (5W-40)
Fiat 9.55535Z2 (meets requirements of).
 
Frank when you say the oil can not remove existing sludge and deposits....leaves me with two questions.

1) Have boosted detergent add packs been tested, real world and lab, on carbon deposits?

2) Is it not possible to have an ester additive that would do so?
 
Sounds to me from the hype that it encapsulates carbon molecules as they form, preventing them from sticking together and preventing larger deposits, kind of like chelation. Seeing is believing. May be someone from abroad can send up a real world test suitable for BITOG acceptance. Perhaps some before and after photos, befor and after compression tests, and some UOA's.
I think I saw a liter bottle for sale on a UK website at 12.98 pounds. Yikes, that would be 48 to 60 lbs. for an average oil change.

In the mean time we will have to use our $5.00 ARX maintenance dose, to keep our motors clean.
 
We're all seeking the holy grail of oils, vo, but I've found that no such oil exists for all users. Delvac 1 is what I consider, in my experience, about the best oil out there. Unfortunately, it's even more expensive than comparable Amsoil and only comes in the 5w-40 flavor.


..but that's not the final end all. Some producer may come up with a very good oil for all users in all climates in all services ..but it probably won't manage to handle a sludge prone engine. The oils of today are better than they have ever been in deposit control, imo, yet we have sludge prone engines that lay them to waste ..with relative ease.

No oil is perfect ..and sooner or later even a minute accumulation becomes an issue that degrades the performance of the engine. We're usually far enough along in the ownership to not really notice it. Like most things, the degradation is so slight, over such a long span, that we just can't detect it.
 
Slude/deposit formation has become increasingly more important over the years with higher hp engines, more emmisions in the oil and longer drain intervals.

Oils that are very oxidation resistant, will keep an engine clean. A good detergent/dispersant additive system helps prevent sludge deposits.

I believe Mobil 1 is biased towards sludge/deposit prevention, which is why it shows somewhat higher wear metals but passes the more stringent tests for turbos and high performance uses. It's also the #1 reason why GM chose it for the Corvette.

Take a look at Honda's HTO-06 turbo spec and oil comparison. Only two oils passed, initially just Mobil 1. PP now meets HTO-06. No other retail synthetic passed.
 
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