Mobil 1 5W30 - 5,042 miles - 2006 Honda Civic Si

[Erik]

Hello all, this is my first post and I hope I include all the necessary information. I just got the results from my very first UOA and would love to get some input from the experts here.

I don't pretend to know how to read this, but the comments provided by Blackstone are a little alarming. The car was bought new on 5/1/06 and over the past 23 months or so, I have put just over 10,000 miles on it. I changed the factory fill at 5,001 miles (sometime in February of '07), which is when the above analyzed oil was put in. At the same time, I put in a new Wix filter. The car is driven, on average, perhaps 4 days a week and averages about 25 miles per day.

I guess what I want to hear is that although some values are high, I haven't done any permanent damage to the engine. I will do what Blackstone says and change the oil sooner this time around. Anyone have any suggestions as to when to do this? I put in SuperTech 5W30 and a new Wix filter on 3/17/08. Is 3,000 miles too soon?

Thanks in advance,

Erik

 

[Turk]

Welcome Erik!!

It's common, but I think that's too long a run for the 1st oil change and maybe the 2nd. 2-3k should be max on a new engine. You may see many views on that and that is ok.

I am glad you're using a real good oil filter!

Good luck!

 

[JAG]

Welcome fellow Virginian. Don't worry, no damage has been done. The engine is still breaking in. What gets me is the ridiculously low viscosity for an oil that starts out at over 11 cST. This particular grade of Mobil 1 has shown itself to have poor shear stability in many UOAs. All in the name of fuel economy...I don't like that approach in a full synthetic (expensive) oil. I do like the current Mobil 1 10W-30 though. It viscosity stays put.

Sure, run the Supertech only 3K miles. It doesn't last very long before its TBN gets low.

 

[badtlc]

Mobil 1 UOAs just get worse and worse. Look at the shearing. Either Mobil 1 is that bad or there is fuel dilution that isn't blatantly obvious.

 

[Turk]

No way I'm running M1.

Erik, next time consider running Pennzoil Platinum (PP) or even Amsoil. Both are absolutely great.

 

[cosynthetics]

I'd consider finding a good 0w-30 oil that doesn't shear and shows good UOAs.

It almost appears that Blackstone got confused. They said to shorten it to 6k miles but you only ran 5k.

 

[REDDOG]

Report looks pretty good for a low milage engine on only it's second oil change! I certainly wouldn't be alarmed about anything at this point. I agree with tpitcher, I like to keep the first 2-3 oil changes relatively short, but I certainly don't think you've hurt a thing. Looks pretty good.

I do think there is some fuel dilution evidenced here by the flashpoint and low oil viscosity, just keep an eye on it.

Sweet ride, welcome aboard!

REDDOG

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Erik - I tink REDDOG's comments have it nailed!

Blackstone's comments continue to amaze me - perhaps we could collate them as a "fun" spot on BITOG

 

[Steve S]

I would say no need for syn oil with 5.000 mile oil changes The numbers aren't high at all.

 

[buster]

Viscosity is low. I think JAG is right. Sample again at 3k.

I would have used M1 again though, then switch.

 

[JAG]

Compiled recently posted UOA data are below. All flashpoint data are from Blackstone.
Viscosity (cST) @ 100F , Flashpoint (F)
M1 5W-30
This UOA: 8.0, 380
Other engines:
9.5, 405
9.7, 430
10.9, 405
9.1, NR
9.1, 375
8.7, 315

PP 5W-30 5100 Miles in 2007 Civic Si
Note: PP 5W-30 starts with lower viscosity at 100F
8.26, 375

So it looks like this engine is a major shear-meister.
Also looks like M1 5W-30 has poor shear stability by my standards for a synthetic 5W-30 oil.
Flashpoint of 380 F for Blackstone is not indicative of unusual (bad) fuel dilution. It's a common result. An extreme example of bad is the 315 F result above where the viscosity was 8.7 cST, higher than the viscosity in this UOA....indicating that mechanical shearing of oils in this engine is severe and that the low viscosity in this UOA can only be slightly attributed to fuel dilution.

 

[glennc]

I don't really see any particular cause for concern. It is very common on new engines to see Si come down for many tens of thousands of miles, from silicone sealants used in assembly. It is also common to see wear metals do the same, and copper in particular seems to stay high for a long time. In addition, M1 oils have a pervasive tendency to show somewhat high iron numbers, and it is debatable whether it is even from wear at all, so that also does not concern me.

On the other hand the viscosity is very low. The flash point is also a bit low, and both could be explained by fuel dilution. Blackstone's report shows
It seems to me that running any ordinary conventional for six months or so would be a very reasonable approach if your driving is not going to change. The numbers will probably settle a little bit and the engine will last forever. On the other hand if you are a bit harder on the oil and only change it every year or so, like you did here, I think the engine will still last forever. There is a large margin built into the conventional BITOG wisdom and modern oil can take a beating and still protect the engine very well.

Not that I am particularly impressed by the oil. Many other oils at the same or lesser price would seem to be capable of doing a better job.

Still, I would not worry about anything here.

 

[Bulli]

do u beat on the car at all?
this is wat i did with my civic.
break in oil, 8 months 4178 miles.
put in some Honda genuine oil for storage.
4538 dumped that oil.
recently switched to M1
have to do 3k miles and then send out oil for UOA


Dont worry everything will settle
2 more oil changes and it should look more normal

also do u warm up your car before driving it?

 

[Erik]

Wow, thanks for all the comments and the warm welcome. I'm relieved that this is somewhat typical of new engines. I guess, however, I shouldn't have listened to the Honda rep who said to leave the factory fill in for no less than 5,000 miles.

Bulli, I don't warm up the car before driving it, just start and go. What's the verdict on this issue? Should I warm it up first? And I don't think I beat on it. I might venture into vtec twice a day and always after the car is fully warmed up (at least 10 minutes).

cosynthetics, which 0W-30 is considered good? I tend to buy whatever I can find locally that seems to be reasonably priced.

tpitcher, badtlc and others, it looks like no more M1 for me. I think I've decided to swith to PP at the next change.

 

[yannis]

Isn't 5W20 recommended for Honda's engines?

 

[Bulli]

5-20 for lower models like i have Dx, Lx, Ex, Ex-l
These have the smaller Very fuel efficient 1.8 l engine (R18a1)

The civic Si has a very high compression motor
2.0 l (k20a3) this calls for 5-30



Erik, having 10k miles on your car really doesn't matter if you let it warm up or not. As long as you don't drive it right after you start it. Let the oil circulate for at least 10 seconds. I recommend 30 seconds and up to 1 minute on cold days.

With having a beast monster like you have i would try to stay away from cheap stuff like supertech. I dubt it would take the abuse and the high revs the motor can produce.

Go with a nice synthetic M1, Amsoil, German Castrol. Pennzoil Platinum

Since M1 is not giving you the results you want i would go with PP

But i, personally would use Amsoil 5-30 ASL formula

 

[Greaser]

You didn't mess with the air filter did you?Stick with the 20w in these engines.

 

[Bulli]

you mean 30w?
he has a
si

 

[Erik]

Greaser, no, I didn't touch the air filter.

Bulli, I'll be sure to wait 30 to 60 seconds before driving the car. I had never heard this, but it's only a few seconds so why not do it, right? I think I've settled on the PP for sure. In two or three thousand miles, I'll drain the SuperTech and send a sample to Blackstone just for peace of mind.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

Erik

 

[cosynthetics]

Originally Posted By: Erik
cosynthetics, which 0W-30 is considered good? I tend to buy whatever I can find locally that seems to be reasonably priced.


PP has 0w-20. That may be all you can find locally. M1 has some 0w but it looks like you are not going to run it any more.